# High voltage extremely low currents

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Ynot1980, Dec 16, 2009.

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1. ### Ynot1980 Thread Starter New Member

Dec 16, 2009
11
0
(Sorry this just kept going, I got carried away) I have limited knowledge of electricity. So please, if my questions seem silly understand it is a learning process. I have read the post "High Volt Low Current" But what I am wondering is if there is a way to trade voltage for more current in the circuit. Is there something that could be added to the circuit either passive or active(additional outside power)?

What i would like to achieve is the creation of a very weak momentary electromagnet from a high voltage extremely low current pulse. Such as a gas grill PZT igniter and a core and windings. Please, I'm just having fun so no slamming.

With a high voltage extremely low current pulse given as the only possible input to the circuit are there any components that could be added to the circuit before the coil windings of the electromagnet to trade any degree of voltage for more current?

I believe I understand that an electromagnet is really a short circuit and that that is part of my problem; I think.

As I understand I could add a resistor or maybe an LED but that would drop the voltage across the whole circuit and there would probably be insufficient voltage or current left to create an electromagnetic effect in my ferrite core and windings, is that correct?

I know I do not know enough about symbols to draw you guys a diagram that would not just throw everybody off. At least at this point.

I will try my best to setup an example...

lets say I have a disc, of PZT or other piezoelectric material in the shape of a cylinder lets say .5" in diameter and .25" in thickness and I have electrical connections placed one on each flat surface of the disc and I strike the disc on one of the flat surfaces a charge with high voltage but no current will be created on the two flat surfaces of the PZT disc. If the other ends of my electrical connections are close enough and there is correct temp and moisture in the air a current will flow as a spark is created between the two connections(as the air vaporizes), is this correct?

By attaching a coil of wire to the electrical connections all I have done is create a short circuit and when the voltage is created no current actually flows through the wire coil, is that correct?

If I add an LED after the coil will this cause a current to flow each time the disc is struck? Will this reduce to voltage across the whole circuit?

Is there something that can be added to the circuit before the LED to trade some voltage for more current now that current is flowing towards the LED? Or would that cause the voltage to drop causing the LED to stop working and thus the current to stop flowing? Is there maybe a way through coil induction that the overall voltage on the primary side could drop while maintaining the same current on the secondary side? With the induction coils separating the circuit I would have the PZT disc on the primary side and the coil and LED on the secondary side.

In theory Striking the disc would create around 1500volts with nowhere to go. The LED(or other component) would cause a current to flow but would drop the voltage across the circuit. With the circuit now on and flowing and the current has balanced itself out to what it is after the voltage drop I assume you now have a low current with a low voltage. Not great power for an electromagnet. Now here is a question. If a devices actually causes four PZT discs to bang together giving you four 1500volt charges with nowhere to go; called to action by the same LED could you expect to have any degree of flowing current with say anywhere around 1.5 volts or better on the circuit after the LED?

Another though or question, What would happen if lets just say(not real figures) it takes 1second for the generated volts to travel in the available current to the LED(just to it, not through it). Lets then say we are creating that charge once every second. So there is a 1 second gap or delay.Now lets say without changing any other aspect of the setup we add a component or mechanism to the circuit just before the LED that retards the speed of the current flowing though it. Would this cause the charge pulses to run into one another before passing the LED? If so, what effect would this have on the current? Would there be change in volts as the charges ran into each other? If the charges are running into each other as they pass this component or mechanism effectively stacking up inside the component is it possible that even though the component is slowing down the flow of current as it passes through that you could an increase of current on the output side over the input side due to the charges stacking up as they pass from the input side to the output side? (wow, now I am sure I sound like I have no idea whats up) As I am sure is obvious I need some insight here.

I believe LEDs work through current not volts is that correct?

I believe I know an electromagnetic effect requires time to setup so it becomes difficult to create an electromagnet with an intermittent input but still can be done, is that correct?

Just so everyone is clear. I am doing this to gain understanding and insight. I have no grand ideas of creating some over-unity machine so there is no need to beat my head into a square shape to be like everyone else with your responses. I do however aspire to create a device that when orientated vertically will pulse an electromagnet and propel a carriage into the air and inch or so. When the carriage falls from it's accent it would then impact the base and two PZT plates to created Hopefully just enough power to match the energy needed to propel it up again. NO extra power created or over unity. I also understand that even if it works for a while generating what it needs to keep working after being manually started that there are other factors that will cause it to eventually stop working(friction, heat, loss of magnetism, breakdown of parts, ect...)

I appreciate your responses if any. And I just want to remind everyone we are just now starting to consider the effects of creating electrical devices with components that have matching resonance frequencies; something that seems like it should have been a major consideration from the beginning. It seems to me people would have thought that to be a very important factor in electricity right from the get-go. Now that people are considering this things can be done with electricity that could not be done before(WiTricity) and the truth is it could have been done from the beginning but aspects of resonance where pretty much not considered then. So my point is that just because something that seems obvious to you is not being done does not necessarily mean you are wrong or that is does not work. Also just because something is simple doesn't mean it has already been considered. This does not mean that I am not prepared to except That what I want to do can not be done. Just that I won't let it go just because there are obstacles. We would never get anywhere that way. Also, I am not trying to break any laws of physics here, but it is my understanding that those laws are really theories, not fact--only true until dis-proven. So please, again, I am just having fun with this. I obviously need some input of current practical knowledge here, but feel free to share whatever thoughts you may have. Thanks.

2. ### beenthere Retired Moderator

Apr 20, 2004
15,808
295
No, the air ionizes and can carry current. Google "ionization".

No, the voltage difference will cause a current. The construction and core of the coil will affect its inductance, which will affect the current.

You have just described a perpetual motion machine.

I am sure that people working in radio will be happy to hear it.

Gee, that is going to be hard going. This form of post is very familiar - folksy, ignorant, and trying to find some slightest bit of consession from us that, indeed, there might be something there. That is not the case.

"It's just a theory", stated dismissively, is supposed to open the door for just everything, right? Perpetual motion (overunity being a subset of that), flying saucers, secret symbols, and vast government (or corporate) conspiracies of silence.

Can you say just what those aspects of resonance are that have escaped notice until just now?

Trying to legitimize selling lies to the public is really what this sounds like.