# HH0 bummer

#### HarveyH42

Joined Jul 22, 2007
426
Too bad thread got locked, I never got an answer to my question about using Stan Meiyer's to fuel my barbecue. Guess it would be cheap to get an electric grill.

Also didn't get the part where photons from common LEDs, are converted to electrons. Didn't think photons had mass...

I think the main reason HHO advocates post on these forums, is that they invested heavily in Stan Meyers, and need to recoup their loses. Probably warehouses full of kits and boards, and not too many people buying into it anymore. They need to keep it current in the search engines, so some people will still believe that it's still an active topic, even though nothing has changed or been improved. Who is going to buy into anything, that hasn't had any recent activity or interest.

Got to admire the dedication though, but agree that the purpose of that thread, was to sell. At the beginning of this summer, one of the Orange county police departments install this stuff in 6 vehicles (article didn't specify patrol cars). Have seen any updates on it since, so guessing it was an embarrassing failure. Hope it didn't destroy the cars too, that's tax payer money. Don't live in Orange, but they do get state and federal money.

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#### blueroomelectronics

Joined Jul 22, 2007
1,757
I think the HH0 snake oil sales are as strong as ever. Remember what P.T. Barnam said.

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#### beenthere

Joined Apr 20, 2004
15,819
Fun as the silly ideas might sound, I did not want AAC to be a sounding board for scammers. There is no doubt the posting were to increase interest and sales.

#### HarveyH42

Joined Jul 22, 2007
426
Yeah kind of thought from the start of that thread, he was out to sell something, but knew the rules. Little surprised he didn't post any links, perhaps in his signature (I shut those, and the pictures off, back when I still was on dial-up). There were a lot of things, I don't know about, more that just didn't fit with what I've been taught, or learned on my own. Those LEDs being used for anything other than indicators, told me he was full of it. Seems like pretty flashing lights are standard equipment on scam devices.

Personally, I'm not against anybody's project, everybody needs a hobby or two. Back when I use to still go fishing (when it was still legal to drink beer, and keep pretty much anything you caught), I seldom even kept what I caught, didn't even care if I got a bite. So, whether or not something will work, or if it's cost effect, isn't always important. But the guy from the last HH0 thread, was looking for advice or help, wasn't really showing off his project, or anything finished. Mostly seemed like recruiting. Hopefully, there is enough factual information to keep most people from getting hooked in on this.

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#### ELECTRONERD

Joined May 26, 2009
1,147

#### Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
21,914
I'm kinda surprised the thread lasted so long. He was surprised at the reception he got, guess we're part of the conspiracy.

But hey, you can always build a H2 generator for the grill, doesn't have to be unity or anything.

#### beenthere

Joined Apr 20, 2004
15,819
It is just the "scientific explanation" thread that got closed, as it was being used to advance the cause of scamming the public. H2opower's other thread about getting the circuitry working is still open.

Anyone wants to give it a shot - go for it.

#### Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
21,914
Yeah, I followed these threads back when HH0 was just getting started, they had a lot of claims for aquygen that predated my introduction to over unity. They actually have commercial applications, though using a well mixed explosive gas seems a bit... rash. They keep talking about how safe it is, but I don't see anything to back that up.

I became a bit disgusted when they keep trying to claim it is something different than oxygen and hydrogen mixed, when it isn't. HH0 doesn't exist, it is a code name. Before that it was Brown's Gas. Part of the problem is these guys seem to be clueless about chemistry. You would think they are talking about a new molecule or element. If it were a new molecule, then it would have a diagram, similar to H2O or sugar. You start talking in this vein and they get very vague indeed, which convinces me they really don't have a clue.

It may have long term commercial uses, but don't invent new names and pretend it is something other than what it is.

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#### beenthere

Joined Apr 20, 2004
15,819
When you say -
Sorry to say it but, there is already a commercially available HH0 system.
- don't be. There is a lot of difference between an electrolysis rig and the silly stuff on the HH0 sites.

The welder is a big water electrolyzer. It does not promise that it uses some not-too-well-defined technology based on uninterpretable ravings to work. It just uses electricity to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen. I'm pretty sure it sequesters the two gasses in separate compartments, as the burn rate of the mixed gasses is going to make it a big bomb otherwise.

This is a very long way from the stuff the free energy people are chasing after. If you have a gas welder, it's pretty easy to order a bottle of hydrogen to see if it's as great as promised before buying the rig.

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#### Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
21,914
You'll note the video links the two towards its end though, and I don't think they are separating the gases, though I hope I'm wrong. You will find with aquygen (or Brown's Gas, which was a perfect mixture of H2 and O2) that all sorts of magical attributes are given. Our media is not doing anyone a service with it's lack of scientific followup, a lot of these reporters really believe in magic I suspect.

This doesn't mean the processes are not useful, just mis-stated.

Brown's Gas under very high pressures is stable strangely enough, but when the tank is almost empty they had a bad habit of exploding.

#### beenthere

Joined Apr 20, 2004
15,819

#### AlexR

Joined Jan 16, 2008
732
The correct chemical representation for the electrolysed gas is $$H_{2}+O_{2}$$ or if you want to be pedantic $$2H_2+O_2$$.

The HH0 representation that the free energy fringe like to use implies atomic hydrogen and oxygen which is just not true.

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#### Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
21,914
Talking about hydrogen/oxygen mixtures would set off a lot of alarms about safety, which is another reason they don't like to talk straight. It is definately a form of deception.

#### Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
21,914
The issue of resonant freq come up, water is above the gigahertz region, near infrared, last I heard. It has nothing to do with this. It is one of the things the HH0 crowd keep pinning their hopes on, but that dog don't hunt.

Like I said, extremely basic chemistry. Hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogren, all of these gases naturally form pairs. You simply do not find them in monoatomic form, as soon as they are single they snag a similar like atom. You can ionize oxygen to form ozone, which is O3, but I suspect those ions are likely to be extremely unstable, and might just blow up in the pipe if they are mixed with hydrogen. Ozone resembles bleach in many ways.

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#### beenthere

Joined Apr 20, 2004
15,819
Why, we have had a discussion of actual, not wished-for, resonant frequency for the water molecule - http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=17009

Even to my missed decimal places.

Iron is an atom, not a molecule. Doesn't anybody check for information? Iron has several resonances, but still up at 2.7 and 5.5 THz.

So -
Why not build a balanced induction bridge to increase the frequency of halfwave or fullwave rectified energy that would deliver the resonant frequency of water?
Combined with an ionic solution, to reduce resistance, it should be cake, no?
No.

#### HarveyH42

Joined Jul 22, 2007
426
It would seem pretty obvious that these resonant frequencies would be well outside what is in common use, otherwise this world would be falling apart. Iron is used in so many things, not to mention most structures of considerable size. Most of these need a lot of help before they fall. Do remember a bridge over a gorge out west (Washington) that crumbled due to wind and resonance, but think that was more the structure as a whole, not the materials used. There is the Tesla 'earthquake' machine, but don't think it worked on specific elements or materials either. Can only thank God, that it isn't so simple, too many destructive people around these days.

#### HarveyH42

Joined Jul 22, 2007
426
Water is pretty tough stuff, you can do a lot of stuff to it, but in the end, you still have water. It's kind of the reason for our being, other stuff mixes in it, but not much, if anything actually changes it. Kind of a major point these HH0 people fail to notice, if something cheap and simple could break the bond, then it would already be happening. Fortunately, water molecules to come apart so easily, we just have to worry about all the toxic crap we mix into it.

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#### green20680

Joined Sep 23, 2009
1
I think you have missed the point. Water after being separated in the HH0 generator goes through a bubbler to keep a spark from going back into the generator then is drawn into the Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) mixture so that the 32% efficient gasoline burns more complete. This better burn then gives more force to the piston; changes back to a water vapor and take the 350 to 450 degree heat of the engine out the tailpipe to exit as water vapor. All previous emissions are cleaned up since the burn is nearly 100%.

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#### beenthere

Joined Apr 20, 2004
15,819
Thank you for the incoherent statement. Got any real numbers to back that up, or is that just another statement of faith? Yet another drive-by post?

Can you possibly back this up (assuming you understand it better than we)? -
changes back to a water vapor and take the 350 to 450 degree heat of the engine out the tailpipe to exit as water vapor
People should not wonder why we show so little respect for the water power crowd.