Help -I am looking to hire a constractor who specilizes in LEDs

Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
21,029
I guess the primary requirement is somebody who believes in what you are doing and is willing to hold your hand through the product development process. The big red flag is understanding what done means and I don't see any takers -- yet.
 

Thread Starter

secondlife

Joined Dec 30, 2017
9
@KeepItSimpleStupid,
All very interesting reading, especially the DALI protocol material, thank you the info. I am going to looking this closer. Thank you for a straight forward answer.

@tranzz4md,
You can't pull that together?
Well dear friend I didn't even know that I needed a "Comm module", I was going to use an espresso machine and that's only because I like coffee.
Please try to understand my position, I am a wiz at what I do, and I know enough to know when to seek a profession for help. I am absolute sure you have given me nothing but diamond and pearls of wisdom, in you posts but I am not familiar enough with any of this technology to even know it, forgive me. Now I can make a list all of you suggestions and taking it to someone else to decipher it and ask, "What did he mean by that" or you and I can talk and see if you would be interested in a PAYING project, so let's talk?

@Papabravo ,
Listen, I know you want to share your feelings and your opinions and bla, bla, bla without contributing anything. Well that is fine with me, I love background noise, it makes me more productive, so please stick around and continue on with what you do. I will even go as far as to give you an open door policy to any and all threads I start you are always welcome, but one thing to member is that I am already in a relationship and I just don't need another chick in my life so I have to draw the line somewhere, cheers. (you can not come into my house and put your feet on my couch, plain and simple. Show some manners)

Guys,
I am already thinking differently about my needs because of some of the points being raised so thank you:
@dl324
@WBahn
@Dodgydave
@tranzz4md
@KeepItSimpleStupid

So thank you all and to be honest I am not looking to learn how to write code, play the piano or river dance. I already have a career, I am only interested in hiring a competent specialist for a project. If you know your stuff, contact me, please. If you need more info beyond post #10 then let's take it into a private conversation where I can turn the noise down and we both can hear each other talk.

Happy New Year.
 
I think you might be able to do nearly everything but power with BACNET and DALI. BACNET is a protocal for building automation. Here is some other food for thought: Do Google search "BACNET SUNRISE SUNSET".

I don't see the sunrise/sunset dimming functions immedately, but you would have to look at some of the BACNET software from manufacturers. Aparently calculating sunrise/sunset is there. BACNET is a hardware spec and protocol, DALI is specifically a lighting protocol.

A Google search of "Calculate Sunrise sunset" woud give you algorithms, but any decent Building automation software should have that,

Here is some info on "Dawn simulation". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawn_simulation

So, a table driven or function driven intensity algorithm should work. One way to accomplish this would be to give the job to a PLC and maybe interogate that value periodically over whatever interval you decide.

Interesting reading: https://astronomy.stackexchange.com...re-the-color-progression-of-a-typical-sunrise Colors in sunrise.

If you want to track what "should be going on", it looks like the algorithms are available. See: http://www.pveducation.org/pvcdrom/calculation-of-solar-insolation

Also see: http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/codesandalgorithms/links.html

I guess there are tow modes to think about.
1) Just create the effect
2) Being more complicated. Try to mimic what;s supposed to be going on outside.

Creating the effect is probably easier and it may actually be better. I think sunrise in the spring/summer is better for you than fall/winter.
The functions were defined in the wikipedia article.

So, like as a suggestion, use another PLC (some have sunrise/sunset) calculation capability and have it just do the calculations and make them available to the building controller.

I'll try to address power separtely.
 
So, sunrise and sunset is just the same program backwards. True sunrise and sunset algorithms contain colors, not just intensity.
Here is an indestructible that actually does this. http://www.instructables.com/id/A-sunrise-and-sunset-lamp-with-LEDs/

POWER (DC)

MODBUS is another open source protocol. It can also run over Ethernet. If you can grab the DC prior to PWM, you can likely use a voltage divider and scale to the 10 V input/ or what ever you decide.

ASIDE: for any output: 0-20 mA is usually better than voltage end it works out really well if it's isolated. A resistor 249 ohms and 0-20 mA make a nice 0-5V input on the controller and it works on long distances. I think there is support for MODBUS on BACNET.
 

tranzz4md

Joined Apr 10, 2015
310
@secondlife ,. I'm glad to see you're making some progress with foundational aspects of your project. I'm also glad to see someone willing and able to "bite back" a bit. I suspect you've surfed the site and looked up a few of our profiles and posts, enough so to recognize some of our trash-talking etc, and won't take anything personally,,,, if even seriously. We'll be certain to return the favor,,, reflexively.

You should indeed go Googling using our various dropped pearls. There's a lot there. I realize that you really wanted more to find a court of suitors, and there may well be a couple here, but gaining more knowledge on your subject matter will help you along your way.

Quite honestly, to help in your networking and locating someone near your office location, you'd likely do well to find which university in your area is the one that has the reputable the EE program, and likely an IEEE chapter. THAT most likely will lead you to a good engineer to work with.

Oh yeah, if you see any construction project on that campus, find the Electrical contractor on it, and talk with the GF or PM (you don't even need to know what that means) and see who did the lighting engineering for that project, and also ask if they'd recently worked on any jobs that had outstanding engineering on the lighting. I believe that those people will be identified on the "plans and spec's" in Michigan, even if they're 2 or 3 layers deep in the tree of design professionals.

If you do all these things, you'll be be closing in on your goal from a few different fronts, so you won't find yourself at a dead-end.
 
AC power

There are transducers doe AC power. Not all may measure it correctly. Here http://www8.m-system.co.jp/koho/searchproducts/global/downloadspec.aspx?ID=39 are some power transducers for AC. They are not cheap. The current waveform would not be sinusoidal with PWM.

AC power measurements are very difficult. We had to buy an AC 3 phase power meter from one company and they assured us it would work at low voltages. We could use it as 3 separate meters for 120 VAC. It worked well. Later I changed our systems to a a DC power supply and a programmable controller.
 

Thread Starter

secondlife

Joined Dec 30, 2017
9
@KeepItSimpleStupid,
Excellent, there is a lot of solid information here to keep me busy, I can't thank you enough for taking an interest in my call for assistants and the time it took to write up these leads. I hope others are as generous as you have been with me, thank you sir.

@tranzz4md,
I'm glad to see you're making some progress with foundational aspects of your project. I'm also glad to see someone willing and able to "bite back" a bit. I suspect you've surfed the site and looked up a few of our profiles and posts, enough so to recognize some of our trash-talking etc, and won't take anything personally,,,, if even seriously. We'll be certain to return the favor,,, reflexively.(as it should be)
It's all in good fun, and I never want to be hurtful. Papabravo out ranks us both, so I am sure he can carry himself just fine and probably has a lot to share when he wants to. My read is that he can be pretty hard on himself and his own quality of work, like most perfectionist are and that's why he is so critical of others, he just stuck in a perfect picture.


You should indeed go Googling using our various dropped pearls. There's a lot there. I realize that you really wanted more to find a court of suitors, and there may well be a couple here, but gaining more knowledge on your subject matter will help you along your way. 100% agreed


Quite honestly, to help in your networking and locating someone near your office location, you'd likely do well to find which university in your area is the one that has the reputable the EE program, and likely an IEEE chapter. THAT most likely will lead you to a good engineer to work with.Oh yeah, if you see any construction project on that campus, find the Electrical contractor on it, and talk with the GF or PM (you don't even need to know what that means) and see who did the lighting engineering for that project, and also ask if they'd recently worked on any jobs that had outstanding engineering on the lighting. I believe that those people will be identified on the "plans and spec's" in Michigan, even if they're 2 or 3 layers deep in the tree of design professionals. Pay dirt, this is the golden ticket right here and this is where I will start.

 
Not sure if you really mean instantaneous wattage or energy or both.

So, you could have a small PLC with MODBUS Master/Slave capability that would use Adam modules (or whatever else you can find) to get
instantaneous power and Energy in Whatever Unit you need like Watt Hours. You need to be able to reset the PLC or have it done on a time schedule. So let's say you wanted daily energy use. So, at some time it becomes zero and then accumulates or you can send an instruction ton zero it. I think the new utility meters have like a 10 minute interval that they send back to the utility.

Energy is hard. Power is Easier. DC is easier than AC.

Maybe say the PLC keeps 2 days of energy data taken an hour apart. Let the BACNET program reset the previous data.

There are energy metering IC's. See http://www.analog.com/en/products/a...l-purpose-converters/energy-metering-ics.html

There are energy monitoring IC's too. See http://www.linear.com/products/Energy_Monitors

For a, one of, I don;t think you want to use this route.

I loved designing programs, but not necessarily writing them. Had a program run 17 years, hard drives too before it was retired.
It was in LabView and I didn;t know the language at the time and it was in it;s infancy and neither did my "programmer".
I did the design and worked out the bugs and I wrote the stuff that had to do with hardware. The entire program was written based on simulation and then real data was added. Simulation mode is always available if the instruments can't be found. So, it sped up development.

I was involved in a complex program that had 7 PID loops and controlled voltage, current and power and temperature. One is picked as the primary control. It also computed heat up energy and had an energy limit. This was very useful in detecting bad thermocoupes or one that was misplaced. It used 5 sec times. It was also two Fortran programs that communicated with each other with an RS232 based A/D, D/A signal conditioner.
 

Thread Starter

secondlife

Joined Dec 30, 2017
9
General info:
If you have a question, please start a thread/topic. I do not provide gratis assistance via PM nor E-mail, as that would violate the intent of this Board, which is sharing knowledge ... and deprives you of other knowledgeable input.


I just read this in someones tagline, I'm starting getting a better idea if how things work around here. I have found a couple companies in my area who consult on the services that I am looking for. If it was not for all of you I would have had no clue to where to look, thank you again.
 
Power

Note the 1 and 5 A outputs is a standard. You still need a current transformer for 0-5A for a 0-5 A system t get the isolation.
See: http://www.nktechnologies.com/current-transformers/ You also might need a voltage transformer too for AC measurements.

Energy if you need that is a bit problematic. Let a dedicated PLC do it.

If you want to reduce the cost, make your own DC and AC energy monitor devices that talks to a dedicated PLC probably.

Just measuring voltage and current and multiplying to get power won't cut it for AC or PWM DC. Energy requires numerical integration.
 
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