The press is saying ,if you buy one you will a really great rebate

to off set buying .Is the green movement working without being

paid to do it. Have anyone read the magazine story on testing the

volt,and it stopped during the test.

 

Do people still not realize that there's not yet a clean, viable, affordable, alternative to gasoline? The president has done a lot to promote electrics, but the truth is that even if he rolled over his entire operation to a fleet of chevy volts, he would be doing more to hurt the environment and the economy that if he rolled over to a fleet of used V8 pickups. We revel in our greenness when we drive electric because it doesn't smog up OUR cities; meanwhile acid rain pelts china. Production of these batteries does more to harm the environment than burning gas driving a comparable already-made gasoline car. All the progress made in electrics by the big name automakers thus far has been on the backs of subsidies. Despite what subsidy-adjusted artificial pricetags may indicate, It is nowhere NEAR cost effective to produce electrics right now, and probably never will be. The volt is just a cobalt, with slightly poorer performance and double the price tag - without subsidies, it would be several orders of magnitude more expensive than the cobalt. Volt, leaf - these are engineered artifacts of the free market - they would not exist in the absence of the big hand of the government meddling in the natural order of things.
What people could start doing to save the planet is STOP BUYING CARS. PERIOD. Drive the one you have until it won't drive anymore. BUY USED. Buy ANYTHING used - it doesn't matter how fuel efficient it is; if you negate the need for just one automobile to be produced (ESPECIALLY an electric), you have just drastically reduced your carbon footprint. WAIT this thing out. There WILL be an alternative, but it's not here yet. Don't get rid of your ride because it's ugly or it makes noises - get it painted, get it fixed. AND, you will be saving tons of money, for yourself (price tag + tax + full coverage insurance) and for the tax payers who will feel the brunt of the ACTUAL price tag of that chevy volt. You can buy a 93 chevy suburban with a 454cid engine for 3000$ - it get's 8mpg, hauls anything, goes anywhere, put liability only on it, and unless you drive >60 miles per day, it does less environmental damage than producing Volt batteries, and costs less that buying & driving a volt. Save the economy, save the planet, stop buying new cars.
If you really want to go green, convert your gas guzzler to CNG. That's the only "green" option that's actually cost effective and good (well, relatively - much higher octane, pollutes much less than gasoline) for the environment at the moment. It's not the answer for the entire infrastructure because if everybody jumped on the CNG bandwagon, price would go up, but if you personally want to make a change, that's how you can do it. The price for CNG right now is at a 10 year low of 1.35$ per gasoline gallon equivalent (BTU) AND the overwhelming majority of CNG comes from domestic sources, unlike gasoline which funds countries who want to kill us. Here's a video that my friend Dave in the navy made about it - if you watch, and you like, then please click "like" - I'm trying to help him get his youtube hit count up.

 

Not the volt,but people are buying the cars that have the rebates.

I'm in an area that you see a lot of car trade-in's.Most have the money

to buy what they want. Also the green window,doors, baths and remodels.

A lot of money is being spent, a lot of money being saved by people that

can afford to do it. I know a lady that spent $40,000.00 in one shopping

spree,one afternoon.

 

Not the volt,but people are buying the cars that have the rebates.

I'm in an area that you see a lot of car trade-in's.Most have the money

to buy what they want.

"the cars that have the rebates"
My grandpa always would say "nothing in this world is free. someone paid for it". We're talking, not about "free", but about "discounted" - The auto makers aren't in the business of giving out discounts. When you buy a new car, you are paying exactly what the auto maker expects to be paid for the car. You are not going to pay less than what they expect. If you paid less than what was on the sticker, that means they tacked a padded figure on the window, and then let you talk them down so you would feel like you got a good deal. The other side of this coin, programs like "cash for clunkers" and whatever rebates you're referring to, is when the government steps in and throws money at the issue. Sure, you might walk away from the dealership thinking that you paid less than what the car was worth, and you did, but the fact remains that the auto dealer got what he expected to get, so where did the difference come from? Tax dollars. nothing's free. somebody paid for it.
Cash for clunkers was an epic failure - all it succeeded in doing was taking a bunch of good cars off the road and replacing them with new cars, necessitating the manufacture of said new cars, further damaging the environment and the economy through these "rebates".

 

Offer $7,500 and which I now think the President has upped it to $10k rebate, to buy a car is like having a child so ugly you need to tie a pork chop around his neck just to get the dog to play with it.

These electric cars are a joke. All they do is transfer the pollution from one source to the other. Once they reach there max range on a charge you are carrying around a few hundred pounds of lead. A similar built internal combustion vehicle would be far more efficient over all.

 

It was reported on T.V. that the Volt did die on the test tract

at consumer reports. I have had golf carts that were dependable

for years,you up that to a battery car to get around town in Fla,

I think that would,when you start going up hills,that another thing.

When you increase the load every go up. I have seen the prius go

up small incline,the load really slow them down,even in Fla.

 

I've seen a few Volts on the road.
While I wouldn't, and couldn't afford to buy one, I think they do serve a purpose as far as testing. We have to start somewhere right?
I think the car you refer to from Consumer Reports is the Fisker Karma?, although the Volts have had their problems as well.
I watched a movie a few years ago about GMs attempt at electric vehicles and it really didn't look like they put anything behind their product, why should they now?
If Ford were to really put their foot forward I would seriously consider buying an electric vehicle from them if it were at a reasonable price. I just don't trust the others. Just my opinion.

 

Electric cars should have pedals for the passengers to charge up the batteries.

Nothing for free today.

 

I've seen a few. Our city hall has set up a couple of charging kiosks in front, they look like something out of "2001", only with a cord. You have to have something like the wireless credit cards to use them.

You can not have it both ways though, without manufacturing there are no jobs. Without jobs people go homeless and/or die, and the great recession becomes the Great Depression II. Pick your priorities, and remember you aren't the only one affected. I can not afford a new car, but before there are used cars there must be new ones. If all of us used nothing but used anything soon there will be none left, and they would still be in a landfill.

Offer $7,500 and which I now think the President has upped it to $10k rebate, to buy a car is like having a child so ugly you need to tie a pork chop around his neck just to get the dog to play with it.

These electric cars are a joke. All they do is transfer the pollution from one source to the other. Once they reach there max range on a charge you are carrying around a few hundred pounds of lead. A similar built internal combustion vehicle would be far more efficient over all.

Your battery tech is a bit off, but even given that the bill for fuel is much cheaper than electric, plus the average gas powered electric plant is several orders more efficient and less polluting than an ICE. Now if we can move to wind or solar I would be happier, not to mention getting off of coal plants, but it is part of a larger picture.

An electric car that is charged with wind or solar beats a old gas guzzler by a long shot.

There is also the fact than new tech that don't use fossil fuels are also in the works. I haven't given up on them.

 

No and our cities pouring money into them instead of building a light rail. Our Governor is so corrupt his nick name is Voldemore.

 

The first big car rebate,said the trade- in's had to be crushed,the steel

ended up in china. None of the cars got into the used car market.

THE QUESTION HOW MANY OF THE CLASSIC USED CARS HAVE YOU SEEN

ON THE ROAD SINCE.

 

An electric car that is charged with wind or solar beats a old gas guzzler by a long shot.QUOTE]

It depends on how deep we cut into this.
The construction of the components for both create toxic waste that must be considered.
At this point in man's evolution, the warm and fuzzies are coming from the alternative wave.
100 years from now, the answer will be revealed in history.

 

The last hundred year's has been fuel oil,with no sign of change soon.

The golf cart has been a sucess story,for gated communities.

History can bump up the golf cart to around town,you add a/c then

you have another story.The world is to fast for direct solar.

New light weight car building materials will help,what the next fiber fix.

You hear of storage spot's in the desert all the time,these could be used

like they have been for year's.

 

A question: Could the sun collect energy from the things it drys out

out and depletes of energy. Is there a two way system,the sun gives

energy and take some back,is there a law on how the sun deals with

energy.

 

The first big car rebate,said the trade- in's had to be crushed,the steel

ended up in china. None of the cars got into the used car market.

THE QUESTION HOW MANY OF THE CLASSIC USED CARS HAVE YOU SEEN

ON THE ROAD SINCE.

Yeah and cash for clunkers went to the extra trouble of putting silica in the engines, seizing them up on purpose to ensure that any possible usefulness was removed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0IcIxhd8ks
It really seems like someone had a personal vendetta against responsible reuse and an agenda for unfettered consumerism

reduce, REUSE, recycle = buy, crush, send to china, buy again (from china).

I really don't know how that thing got passed.

 

VooDoo,could ride his motorcycle to Washington to represent us,if

not Loosewire will have to take another trip to Washington.

What on your mind that needs attention in Washington,while get

my a b c map out for the right street.

 

well if you're going, put this on your list:
stop spending money.
stop encouraging outsourcing; actually do something to discourage it.
bring the troops home
I have another (much longer) list but everything on it pales in comparison to those three, so I won't bother listing it until those 3 happen.

 

The local school districts are taking exchange student now,for $30,000.00

ahead until they get here and learn our system for a free pre K to 12th.

Then for a promise to be in line for college,sholarships will go them. Having

charter schools are not run by teachers,they are run for profit by ex-

community leaders that get the contracts,while the public thinks its a

better education system.The country is for sale,not the highest bidder.

Most school districts have changed there charter to allow off shore students,

so any one's complaint go's any nowhere .Most parents don't realize what

going,they think they have a chance to get away from the wrong concern.

That why the Washington D.C. school board got rid the young woman with

real change,she was for the student.The big money got her out of the system.

Its all about the false dream of lots of cash,that will turn into U.S. system once

you are in this country,have you heard that before about using Federal Courts.

 

I like electric cars.

But I wouldn't buy one - I'd build one.

I know someone who has built one with lithium batteries for around $6,000 in an old Pontiac. That did around 100 miles which is pretty respectable.

Probably take a non-runner or poorly running old compact and strip it out. I'd initially use lead acid batteries because of the lower cost. A custom designed inverter using plasma TV IGBTs would be a good 4th year university project.

If powered by renewable sources then in theory emissions are zero.

However that does not include production emissions. Lithium batteries aren't nearly as bad as nickel or lead based batteries. However, lithium is mostly found in China. So we'd be moving our dependency from Middle Eastern oil to Chinese batteries. Neither are politically stable. I wish zinc-air batteries were more practical but research on them seems to have stalled. As zinc is very common in the Earth's crust.

I *don't* like how many commentators on batteries "hope" mass production will lower the costs. I don't think it will.

 

VooDoo,could ride his motorcycle to Washington to represent us,if

not Loosewire will have to take another trip to Washington.

What on your mind that needs attention in Washington,while get

my a b c map out for the right street.

Lou Swire,
Pennsylvania Ave runs from SE to NW.
Maryland Ave runs from NE to SW.
Where they would meet and make an X is the Capitol Building.

Where Pennsylvania and New York X is the White House

Anyone at AAC that wants a dedicated guide for a safe secure tour of Washington DC, let me know. I will be glad to show you around.