Future of AHCA? (U.S.A. American Healthcare Act)

Will new version of the AHCA pass the senate?


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tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,867
I apologize that I was unclear -- When I said 'group insurance plan' I was referring to the actuarial construct --as opposed to-- the premium/deductible schedule.

Under said system:
-All citizens are fully covered - period!
-As with all fair taxation, premiums and deductibles are income based -- To be clear: no counted income=no premium/deductible but full coverage! It's all of decent, civilized and practically realizable!
-Beneficiaries are not penalized for poor health via forfeiture/confiscation of property (i.e. there is no 'asset test').




IOW you're not a fascist! -- Sincere congratulations!:cool:

@ronv I'm bound to ask, having corresponded with me upon this topic for neigh-on one year, how could you possibly arrive at a conclusion aligning me with the foul likes of Ezekiel Emanuel based upon any misinterpretation of post #47?:rolleyes::mad::(

Best regards
HP
Personally full universal health care and basic retirement are one of the more socialist concepts I am in favor of and feel that with properly and efficient financial and general management our country could easily afford it and likely be money and quality ahead of where we are now by a long shot.
It's the overwhelming corruption driven greed of our present health and general government operating system that are the problem.

There is absolutely no justification in some prescription medications costing hundreds to a $1000 for 30 pills when the exact same medications are used for large farm animals and can be bought in coffee can sized volumes for bulk herd health management for less than $100. Ask any large animal Veterinarian and they will give you a whole list of those medicines that have obscene markups for the human consumption side despite their coming from the exact same pharmaceutical manufactures and likely from the same base batches when made too. :mad:

I used to work at a local welding supply center where we also handled and filled medical grade oxygen bottles along with the common and much larger industrial ones. A small portable oxygen bottle (~40 liter) cost as much as a K size (~7800 liter) commercial one despite they both were filled off the exact same systems. The only difference was the big K size didn't have paperwork certifying you could breath it which cost maybe 25 cents to print. :rolleyes:

That's the type of rip offs I hate and see that the medical industry needs taken out of the the system. :mad:
 
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Hypatia's Protege

Joined Mar 1, 2015
3,226
Look at all those people dropping like flies in Australia! That healthcare system is obviously killing all of them.

Oh, wait, Why did Trump call the Australian healthcare system, "the best in the world!"?
The socialized healthcare schemes of Australia, Canada, etc are sterling examples of the 'downside' of ('actuarial-layer') 'single payer' schemes -- which being fascism by any other name! --- The longer they run - the uglier they get!:( -- As for Trump? He's merely an 'old boy' with a big mouth!o_O:rolleyes:

Best regards
HP:)
 

GopherT

Joined Nov 23, 2012
8,012
The socialized healthcare schemes of Australia, Canada, etc are sterling examples of the 'downside' of ('actuarial-layer') 'single payer' schemes -- which being fascism by any other name! --- The longer they run - the uglier they get!:( -- As for Trump? He's merely an 'old boy' with a big mouth!o_O:rolleyes:

Best regards
HP:)

What part isn't working? How bad is it?
 

Thread Starter

Aleph(0)

Joined Mar 14, 2015
597
What part isn't working? How bad is it?
Gophert it's super long waiting lists, widespread totally incompetent and substance abusing docs, no oversight at all, horse $#!t facilities and that's just getting started:rolleyes:! So the easy way to summarize is to just say it's like worst case scenario of US VA healthcare:eek::rolleyes: I agree with HP that it's fascism just as it stands cuz it's totally defacto rationing at best:mad:!
 

Hypatia's Protege

Joined Mar 1, 2015
3,226
how do you think we could accomplish this without turning the world upside down?
As stated in an earlier post -- Via imposition of a new tax that (in the vast majority of cases) would cost each taxpayer less (typically much less) than they are currently paying for basic coverage - in premiums alone...

To answer the last question first. I was confused by this statement:
Understood and absolutely no 'hard feelings'!:) -- That said, in the event of future ambiguity, I respectfully request grant of 'history-weighted benefit of the doubt' pending clarification:cool:

Very best regards
HP:)
 

joeyd999

Joined Jun 6, 2011
4,477
Via imposition of a new tax that (in the vast majority of cases) would cost each taxpayer less (typically much less) than they are currently paying for basic coverage - in premiums alone...
If that would work so well with health care, why not expand the program? Hmmm???

Food, housing, clothing...

Cell phones, big screen TVs, automobiles?

Rainbows, unicorns?

Are the economics different just because it's medical care?????
 

ronv

Joined Nov 12, 2008
3,770
Gophert it's super long waiting lists, widespread totally incompetent and substance abusing docs, no oversight at all, horse $#!t facilities and that's just getting started:rolleyes:! So the easy way to summarize is to just say it's like worst case scenario of US VA healthcare:eek::rolleyes: I agree with HP that it's fascism just as it stands cuz it's totally defacto rationing at best:mad:!
Hi (0),
I'm guessing these problems are because the people getting paid for the care are not getting paid enough???
If so, would another $1000 per patient fix it or would it take more?
Don't tell Joey, we already have socialized food and housing.:D Ohh, we still have Reagan phones as well. :)
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
9,065
I'd like to opt out and buy my medical care (and housing) just like I buy big screen TVs
Would you also be willing to accept the same service/maintenance that you get on those big screen tv's? Do you not have 'home owners insurance' on your house? Isn't that also a form of "socialism"? You don't here people complaining that you living in Florida and having hurricanes, increase home insurance for us that don't live in areas that don't have frequent devastation like that. But it does. So in effect you are benefiting from our 'welfare'.
 
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djsfantasi

Joined Apr 11, 2010
8,078
Let's talk about opting out. There are those who believe opting out is their right. That they believe participating in programs, with which one has a disagreement, is infringing on some personal right.

But it is not so direct. For where do these rights and benefits come from? They come from society. And then the tanstaafl principle enters. If you wish to play, you must pay.

Contributing to programs for the general societal good is the payment. Note that I did not limit programs to which you agree. You must contribute to ALL programs for the general good. Some benefit you. Some benefit others.

While I say must contribute, in reality there is an option. You can decide to leave the society in question. Move to Iraq! Leave, and contribute to our society by lessening our costs necessary to support you. I would be satisfied with that.
 

joeyd999

Joined Jun 6, 2011
4,477
For where do these rights ... come from? They come from society.
The American Founders would disagree with you. As would I.

Thomas Jefferson said:
We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness—That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
 

tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,867
Let's talk about opting out. There are those who believe opting out is their right. That they believe participating in programs, with which one has a disagreement, is infringing on some personal right.
That's always been one of my peeves with healthcare or any benefits in general. I think it should either be an all encompassing coverage that is paid equally by all or it should be where a person can opt out and not have coverage beyond paying for what they need themselves when they need it.

I for one have always hated company health insurance plans where if I sign up I pay a percentage (10 - 20%) and they pay the rest (80 - 90%) yet if I opt out I don't get the cash equivalent or even a discounted percentage of the 80 - 90% they would be paying on my plan given to me instead. :mad:

The way I see it, if my insurance plans cost $1000 a month and I am paying $200 and they pay the the other $800 if I don't sign up they save $800 which if a person was given half that would have far more people like me not signing up for insurance and thus saving the company more plus putting money in our pockets for not running to the doctor for every little thing just to make sure we burn up any of our annual insurance policy value it may have. :mad:

I hate going to the doctor but I hate paying for something I don't use or gain from even more.
 

tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,867
I'd like to opt out and buy my medical care (and housing) just like I buy big screen TVs:
Same here. At least with the dirt cheap Chinese health care when it doesn't do anything good for you you can at least justify that you got what you paid for and if it does fix the problem you got way more for your money that the other systems would have given.
 
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