# Future of AHCA? (U.S.A. American Healthcare Act)

## Will new version of the AHCA pass the senate?

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#### BR-549

Joined Sep 22, 2013
4,938
I would never eat it. The effect would take too long a time.

The doctors tell me my bouts of vertigo are cause by the atherosclerosis also. The bouts are sometimes so strong that I vomit. Nothing relieves the nausea as fast and as good as pot.

I believe pot is renowned for it's counter nausea effects. But I have never eaten it.

I am certainly no expert. My problem is.......the pot relieves the pain......then I can walk and stand longer.......which causes the muscles to burn more O2.......causing the pain to return. Needing more pot. But I have learned to limit my up time........so I am not stoned out of my gourd all day. Just going to the bathroom used to make my legs throb. But I can now stay up for about 5 minutes now. Without meds or pot. But not afraid to over do it now.....with the pot.

It's hard to explain/compare.....everyone is different.

#### cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
7,552
No, I don't think it hastened his death. He was just in so much pain he couldn't do anything. It was like magic.
I guess it could have just made him talky, but I don't think so.
My wife's mother suffered from severe deforment in her hands due to artritis, and she was in almost constant pain because of it. She used a special pot ointment that would greatly reduce her discomfort.

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#### wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,160
I have a tendency to blame the high cost on the providers rather than the Government as they were going nuts before.
Many do, but that's completely backwards. The primary cause of price distortions in medicine is interference by government. The greater the interference, the more absurd the prices. Such is the history of 'regulated' markets, where consumers are separated from the decision-making and buying process.

When consumers are free to shop and have an incentive to do so, the market will deliver a range of competitive services at widely varying price levels. Just look at the other things you buy; houses, cars, vacations, everything. The choices can be daunting but the availability of so many competitive choices helps you know that, to a large degree, you get what you pay for. Now look at medicine in this country. It's a bloated joke because 'appropriate' care is defined by the central planners that have no stake other than the power it gives them. The government has taken over the shopping process - we're far too stupid to look out for ourselves - and gives us the false security of looking out for us. It's the same old trading of freedom for security. We still have the freedom to choose our own cars and homes, but you can be sure they're working on those too, to free us of the burden of choice.

I'm not saying the lack of a free market is the only problem we have with costs. Our medical costs are also high because some have a notion that everyone is entitled to the same - very high - level of care. (But oddly I can't convince these people that I'm entitled to a nice vacation every year, on their dime.) So we give very expensive healthcare to people that cannot and will not ever pay for it. Even that would not break us.

We also have a culture that thinks a quick fix, a pill or a surgery, can fix us. We take the majority of the world's medicines, and suffer the highest death rates caused by them. Pharmaceuticals are this country's biggest killer and yet we see them advertised endlessly on TV, only to be in the news a few years later for all the deaths that 'surprisingly' result. A lot of surgeries are wasteful at best, because doctors are not even taught about less expensive and invasive alternatives that can address the causes and not just the symptoms. In fact they're generally taught to scoff at things like chiropractic and nutritional therapies even though these can be more effective, if slower.

#### cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
7,552
I live a couple of hours away from McAllen, Tx. And often go there to visit friends and do some shopping with my wife and family.

And then there was a follow up:

Interestingly enough, the medical industry here in Monterrey has been booming for the last decade or so. This town has now become a medical-tourism destination for many americans and canadians. Most people are unaware of this, but the quality of private medical practice here and installations can easily compete with most first-world facilities, and at a substantially reduced cost.

Joined Jan 15, 2015
6,321
I have a small corrugated garden hose.....that goes from my right leg crouch....up over my privates and over to my left leg crouch. This is how I get blood to my left leg.
Been there and done that, I had PAD (Peripheral Arterial Disease). They began on the lower aeorta and went down into both legs. October will be 4 years and now I have great circulation. At the onset I could walk shorter and shorter distances before real bad pain in my upper legs. We reviewed the options including stents and for me the arterial bypass was the best long term solution. I was 63 at the time. Like I said it worked great and I do continue to take Bystolic to keep things clear and surgery recovery sucked but I am fine today and the plumbing should last till I am dead of old age. I have a bump in my upper gut where they connected but that is about it. I was on COBRA so my company medical covered everything.

Ron

#### ronv

Joined Nov 12, 2008
3,770
Many do, but that's completely backwards. The primary cause of price distortions in medicine is interference by government. The greater the interference, the more absurd the prices. Such is the history of 'regulated' markets, where consumers are separated from the decision-making and buying process.

When consumers are free to shop and have an incentive to do so, the market will deliver a range of competitive services at widely varying price levels. Just look at the other things you buy; houses, cars, vacations, everything. The choices can be daunting but the availability of so many competitive choices helps you know that, to a large degree, you get what you pay for. Now look at medicine in this country. It's a bloated joke because 'appropriate' care is defined by the central planners that have no stake other than the power it gives them. The government has taken over the shopping process - we're far too stupid to look out for ourselves - and gives us the false security of looking out for us. It's the same old trading of freedom for security. We still have the freedom to choose our own cars and homes, but you can be sure they're working on those too, to free us of the burden of choice.

I'm not saying the lack of a free market is the only problem we have with costs. Our medical costs are also high because some have a notion that everyone is entitled to the same - very high - level of care. (But oddly I can't convince these people that I'm entitled to a nice vacation every year, on their dime.) So we give very expensive healthcare to people that cannot and will not ever pay for it. Even that would not break us.

We also have a culture that thinks a quick fix, a pill or a surgery, can fix us. We take the majority of the world's medicines, and suffer the highest death rates caused by them. Pharmaceuticals are this country's biggest killer and yet we see them advertised endlessly on TV, only to be in the news a few years later for all the deaths that 'surprisingly' result. A lot of surgeries are wasteful at best, because doctors are not even taught about less expensive and invasive alternatives that can address the causes and not just the symptoms. In fact they're generally taught to scoff at things like chiropractic and nutritional therapies even though these can be more effective, if slower.
Many do, but that's completely backwards. The primary cause of price distortions in medicine is interference by government. The greater the interference, the more absurd the prices. Such is the history of 'regulated' markets, where consumers are separated from the decision-making and buying process.

When consumers are free to shop and have an incentive to do so, the market will deliver a range of competitive services at widely varying price levels. Just look at the other things you buy; houses, cars, vacations, everything. The choices can be daunting but the availability of so many competitive choices helps you know that, to a large degree, you get what you pay for. Now look at medicine in this country. It's a bloated joke because 'appropriate' care is defined by the central planners that have no stake other than the power it gives them. The government has taken over the shopping process - we're far too stupid to look out for ourselves - and gives us the false security of looking out for us. It's the same old trading of freedom for security. We still have the freedom to choose our own cars and homes, but you can be sure they're working on those too, to free us of the burden of choice.

I'm not saying the lack of a free market is the only problem we have with costs. Our medical costs are also high because some have a notion that everyone is entitled to the same - very high - level of care. (But oddly I can't convince these people that I'm entitled to a nice vacation every year, on their dime.) So we give very expensive healthcare to people that cannot and will not ever pay for it. Even that would not break us.

We also have a culture that thinks a quick fix, a pill or a surgery, can fix us. We take the majority of the world's medicines, and suffer the highest death rates caused by them. Pharmaceuticals are this country's biggest killer and yet we see them advertised endlessly on TV, only to be in the news a few years later for all the deaths that 'surprisingly' result. A lot of surgeries are wasteful at best, because doctors are not even taught about less expensive and invasive alternatives that can address the causes and not just the symptoms. In fact they're generally taught to scoff at things like chiropractic and nutritional therapies even though these can be more effective, if slower.
I could almost buy that if Europe had the same problem. But they don't, and most are publicly funded.
I think it got away from us when employers started paying for it and it became "free."
I'm more inclined to agree with @cmartinez articles because I can see it in my own doctor. I had a recent experience with pain killers. My wife gets Tramadol for her back from her orthopedic guy. I tried them when I played golf. Mum, mum good. So I ask my doctor for some. He said okay, but his office has a practice of drug testing for pain killers. So I signed up and peed in the cup. Thru a mixup with the insurance I saw the bill was about $1000 for the test. Next time I was in I told him I didn't want to spend that kind of money on a urine test. His response was why? Your insurance pays for it. I told him no, my daughter is paying for my Medicare. I now steal my wife's pills again since her doctor just gives them to her. I have several more examples. I think it's like a Russian conspiracy except with doctors. Not sure if there is collusion or not. #### justtrying Joined Mar 9, 2011 435 I could almost buy that if Europe had the same problem. But they don't, and most are publicly funded. I think it got away from us when employers started paying for it and it became "free." I'm more inclined to agree with @cmartinez articles because I can see it in my own doctor. I had a recent experience with pain killers. My wife gets Tramadol for her back from her orthopedic guy. I tried them when I played golf. Mum, mum good. So I ask my doctor for some. He said okay, but his office has a practice of drug testing for pain killers. So I signed up and peed in the cup. Thru a mixup with the insurance I saw the bill was about$1000 for the test. Next time I was in I told him I didn't want to spend that kind of money on a urine test. His response was why? Your insurance pays for it. I told him no, my daughter is paying for my Medicare. I now steal my wife's pills again since her doctor just gives them to her.
I have several more examples. I think it's like a Russian conspiracy except with doctors. Not sure if there is collusion or not.
It isn't really a conspiracy. There is a number of documentaries that were done on indoctrination of medical studwnts by the pharma industry.

Why are drug commercials even legal? Why are new conditions made up on the fly and sold to people? 70 year old men do not need to be treated for erectile disfunction and neither do 50 year old women need to be told they have a pelvic disorder... But yes, go ahead, take the testa and the pill and once you develop another condition from them, we will give you another pill. Circle complete.

#### ronv

Joined Nov 12, 2008
3,770
It isn't really a conspiracy. There is a number of documentaries that were done on indoctrination of medical studwnts by the pharma industry.

Why are drug commercials even legal? Why are new conditions made up on the fly and sold to people? 70 year old men do not need to be treated for erectile disfunction and neither do 50 year old women need to be told they have a pelvic disorder... But yes, go ahead, take the testa and the pill and once you develop another condition from them, we will give you another pill. Circle complete.
God, don't bring that up. It drives my wife nuts that the insurance now days comes standard with Viagra, but not with birth control pills.

#### cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
7,552
Well now you've done it. She just mailed that gal a check for her re-election campaign.
Well that's a relief... the first time I read your post I thought it said "re-erection" !!! ...

#### GopherT

Joined Nov 23, 2012
8,012
Well that's a relief... the first time I read your post I thought it said "re-erection" !!! ...
You obviously focused on the part of the story that was most important to you.

#### wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,160
Why are new conditions made up on the fly and sold to people?
I recently learned of a good one. Know what osteoporosis is defined as? The drug companies defined it as the level of bone loss that results in 50% of older women being diagnosed as having a disease. That's it! An arbitrary level chosen to ensure a large pool of potential customers. Know what the drugs do? They slow down the natural process of bone breakdown so that the natural rate of building them back can catch up. Bone mass increases, so the drugs work, right?. Nope. It turns out that, because the bone lasts longer and does not turnover, it becomes more brittle. So the patients are no better protected against broken bones. Simple exercise can have a much more profound impact on bone structure and addresses the loss of balance that is the greater risk factor. But there's no money in spreading that knowledge.

#### shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
9,057
I could almost buy that if Europe had the same problem. But they don't, and most are publicly funded.
The whole 'free market' thing amazes me. How did it work out with the housing bubble? It would be exactly the same if it was in healthcare. Regulation is needed because without it companies won't regulate themselves. Greed is overpowering.

#### shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
9,057
I have an advantage plan, so maybe a little different. I can't remember how I got here.
I too have an 'advantage plan' but the way it was explained to me that is something that was tied to Ocare.

#### shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
9,057
I might consider some edibles once the enforcement laws catch up.
Give you some advise about 'edibles'. A "friend", not me of course, used to eat pot brownies, it doesn't take effect as fast. So don't think it's not working and eat more. When it does hit you you won't be able to function. Or at least that's what I'm told

#### wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,160
The whole 'free market' thing amazes me. How did it work out with the housing bubble? It would be exactly the same if it was in healthcare. Regulation is needed because without it companies won't regulate themselves. Greed is overpowering.
Again, that's backwards. The housing bubble was a direct and predicted result of the government forcing lenders to provide easy credit to people that could never hope to pay it back. This caused an enormous and historical increase in the homeownership percentage in this country, i.e. a bubble. It popped. The banking industry gets blamed for some of the clever ways they sought to protect themselves from the risk they were forced to take on, some of which arguably included fraud, but the root cause of the risky situation was government fiat. The law of unintended consequences writ large.

#### dl324

Joined Mar 30, 2015
13,833
Regulation is needed because without it companies won't regulate themselves. Greed is overpowering.
For political reasons, the ACA wasn't allowed to improve. SSA and Medicare had enormous problems that needed to be addressed; so does ACA. Republicans couldn't kill the other two, but conditions might be right for them to, yet again, place their personal and/or party beliefs ahead of what is good for the majority of Americans.

ACA made health coverage available, mandated minimal coverage requirements, removed lifetime caps, and made coverage for pre-existing conditions mandatory; among other things.

What it didn't, and hasn't been allowed to, address was the affordability aspect. Prices for medical services and products are generally out of control The government needs to regulate the industry to make sure consumers aren't being taken advantage of, while allowing people in the medical related businesses to make a decent profit that will allow them to stay in business and continue to innovate.

What we don't need are, for example, drug companies that make huge, unjustifiable price increases on critical drugs; just because they can. When companies place undue emphasis on profits versus the good of mankind, they need to be regulated. That EPI pen fiasco was just one highly publicized instance. Come on, people need to buy them whether or not they actually use them because they can be life saving but have a limited shelf life. That's a captive market. People who need them have to buy until they die.

For some reason, Republicans oppose regulating the pharmaceutical industry; or hospitals. \$2-5 for the paper cup that nurses use to put pills in?? They use those cups for their convenience, not the patient. Next they'll be charging for hazardous waste disposal when you use the toilet; or maybe they already do??

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#### ronv

Joined Nov 12, 2008
3,770
I recently learned of a good one. Know what osteoporosis is defined as? The drug companies defined it as the level of bone loss that results in 50% of older women being diagnosed as having a disease. That's it! An arbitrary level chosen to ensure a large pool of potential customers. Know what the drugs do? They slow down the natural process of bone breakdown so that the natural rate of building them back can catch up. Bone mass increases, so the drugs work, right?. Nope. It turns out that, because the bone lasts longer and does not turnover, it becomes more brittle. So the patients are no better protected against broken bones. Simple exercise can have a much more profound impact on bone structure and addresses the loss of balance that is the greater risk factor. But there's no money in spreading that knowledge.
My wife went thru that. Her doctor was pushing the "treatment." We had just watched the lady across the street crumble while on it. Not to mention her side effects.

#### dl324

Joined Mar 30, 2015
13,833
I too have an 'advantage plan' but the way it was explained to me that is something that was tied to Ocare.