# Electronic Sensors In Salt Water And Oil Spill

#### loosewire

Joined Apr 25, 2008
1,686
The weather service uses buoys to collect Information, With the oil spill
that could contaminate a large portion of the salt water.What would the
Impact be If the Oil go unchecked. One the back-up sources of fresh
drinking water in salt water. Do you think that this could be one the
worst disasters that ever happened. Will It In directly effect you,
In the days to come we will see how much our waters are comtaminated.
Our science guys,can you answer the question how the oil to water mix will
affect Its human use,what content makes it un-useable. Do you have a
opinion If the spill go un checked for months.How deep below the slick do
you get comtaminations,anyone have any knowledge. This this another
long term concern of the earths drinking waterand food supply. We always hear
that the earth Is 75% water,a lot of food supply.

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#### beenthere

Joined Apr 20, 2004
15,819
While it is a relatively large disaster, the first hurricane of the season could erase all traces. It's light crude, so it tends to evaporate rather than form tarry crud.

I recall a lot of oil residue still on the beaches of Florida from the tankers sunk during WWII (still there in 1952).

#### jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,088
Obviously, the gulf oil spill is an unfortunate event that we need to study to prevent future occurrences, if reasonably possible. However, oil is in the ocean naturally. Most of the tar that washes up on California beaches is from natural sources. Accurate estimates of the amount of tar/oil released worldwide into the oceans naturally are not available, as it seems to be a relatively new area of study. One thing is for sure, it is not insignificant, based on NASA photographs.

Here are some sources:

http://www.mms.gov/omm/Pacific/enviro/seeps2.htm
One of the most intensively studied seepage area lies off Coal Oil Point, in Santa Barbara County. Seeps in this area release an estimated 11 to 160 barrels (450 to 6,700 gallons) of oil per day, along with a large volume of natural gas.
That is just from one vent, and about 1/3 down the article:
Most biologists agree that the community responds in an organic enrichment pattern where the added organic matter acts like a fertilizer to increase productivity and increase the number of oil-degrading organisms.
Another article about natural vents using NASA images, but nothing quantitative: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090219101658.htm

Another on the abiotic production of oil from a usually reliable source: http://www.nature.com/news/2008/080131/full/news.2008.542.html

So, the current spill, while bad, is not the end of the world for ocean life.

John

#### Duane P Wetick

Joined Apr 23, 2009
435
While I hate to see big spills...oil seeps have been around for a long time. Here in PA, oil is found in a lot of places. Oil creek (a trout stream) squishes oil from all sorts of natural and man made seeps and yet the trout and other stream life thrive therein. Crude oil is still used as a homespun remedy for mangy hounds and other similarly afflicted critters.

Cheers, DPW [ Everything has limitations...and I hate limitations.]

#### maxpower097

Joined Feb 20, 2009
816
Word around here is this could litterally kill the Gulf fishery, which is a 1.8 billion dollar industry. They are claiming Grouper and other deepwater fish will be affected 1st. Then the shrimp beds will become contaminated rendering the Gulf shrimp industry dead for the next 10+ years. The only bigger fishery in the western hemi is alaska. So be prepared for seafood across the board to double may be even tripple. Also many are claiming that the gulf stream is going to carry the oil up the atlantic corrupting florida's atlantic fishery. Whats sad is we all knew this was gonna happen when they let them put oil rigs in the gulf a while back. Plus we havn't even begun to understand how bad it really is. Many other scientist are saying this could dwarf the exxon valdes by 10 fold.

Maxpower (Tampa, FL)

#### loosewire

Joined Apr 25, 2008
1,686
This site has good logic,from a history point of view to
what can happen In the future. The natual leakage photo's
says lot and the oceans ability to absorb vast amount of oil.
And how the ocean reject Tar balls and deposits them on the
beach In solid form. That the same area that Bill Gates was
going to have his freighters waiting for hurricanes,he could
have helped humanity and scooped a lot of oIl from the
Gulf Of Mexico,What about the Mexican beaches,they don't
want to run the tourist away. Any one heard any more about bill fleet,
maybe he Is going to have his own Navy.

#### maxpower097

Joined Feb 20, 2009
816
Loosewire thats kinda crazy. Sure half the oil floats up in the ocean but over millions of years. Were literally pumping the oil out of the ground into the ocean at a rate thousands if not hundreds of thousands of times more then normal seepage. From your logic that half the oil leeks out anyways, then we wouldn't have any oil and it would have leeked out already. It takes millions of years for the earth to produce oil so half can't just leak out overnight.

#### jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,088
Were literally pumping the oil out of the ground into the ocean at a rate thousands if not hundreds of thousands of times more then normal seepage.
Interesting claim. Can you cite some scientific studies of that claim in referred journals?

John

#### loosewire

Joined Apr 25, 2008
1,686
Wikipediea, anyone, the learned knowledge has given way
to the Instant Internet for conversation on all subjects.
Students are experts on Instant kwowledge,I don,t go to
wikipedia,I put myself out front,I don't worry about opinion,
life experience still means something. Fine tuning facts with
life experience.There Is still a lot on this Forum. The links are
very helpful I won't deny that and still willing to learn from
every one.

#### maxpower097

Joined Feb 20, 2009
816
Interesting claim. Can you cite some scientific studies of that claim in referred journals?

John
No sorry, were in uncharted terratory so any comment will be pure educated guess, by anyone! We've never had a spill of this magnatude on earth so we have no basis to go by. My comments come from a family member who does research on FL groundwater and has worked for the DEP, EPA, MM, and countless universities.

But heres a quote from the worlds largest oil seep.

"The Coal Oil Point seep field offshore from Santa Barbara, California is a petroleum seep............................... This seep also releases on the order of 100 to 150 barrels of liquid petroleum per day. The field produces about 9 cubic meters of natural gas per barrel of petroleum.

Heres a quote from the blow out.

"The Coast Guard and BP have said it's nearly impossible to know exactly how much oil has gushed since the blast, though it has been roughly estimated to be at least 200,000 gallons a day."

1 barrel = 55 gallons = 3636 barrels a day estimated, which they admit is purely a guess and could be as much as 10 times higher.

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#### retched

Joined Dec 5, 2009
5,208
countless universities.
I can count pretty high.. its true

Oil seepage is one of the least known things on the planet. There are ultra high depth seepages that may never reach the surface.

Back in the days of 'ole. The renaissance period folks used seepage products as there ONLY source of ground oil. Naphtha was collected at ground level and used in weapons of war,and industry. Supposedly, according to a late night with the History channel, the Chinese first hit oil accidentally whilst drilling for water. They used a bending tree or bamboo pounding/turning technique, similar to what we do now, for water wells.

Everyone else used seepage as there source. Look at the La Brea tar pits. Thats a good example of seepage.

The oil lamps and such were usually animal fat in other areas around the globe.

#### maxpower097

Joined Feb 20, 2009
816
I can count pretty high.. its true
Ok 3 directly and many more as an associate. Also I live on the water here in FL so I will let you know as soon as I see oil. Oddly enough there is a huge "oiley" smell all over the city. The gov. says its not because of the spill but no one here really believes them.

#### retched

Joined Dec 5, 2009
5,208
Oddly enough there is a huge "oiley" smell all over the city. The gov. says its not because of the spill but no one here really believes them.
What the helatio would it be?

"Oh the vodka smell on my breath isn't from the vodka I had for breakfast."

I swear, osi-fer. --HIC--

#### maxpower097

Joined Feb 20, 2009
816
What the helatio would it be?

"Oh the vodka smell on my breath isn't from the vodka I had for breakfast."

I swear, osi-fer. --HIC--

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/apr/29/smell-air-not-coming-oil-tests-indicate/news-breaking/

UPDATE: AP is reporting

6 dead seaturtles washed ashore in MS yesterday
10 dead seaturtles washed ashore in MS today
Tomorrow, who knows?

This is really starting to look bad. To think who much money has been spent the past 30 years protecting our seaturtles and this may wipe them out. If 10 washed ashore today that means there are probably 1000's dead still at sea. Manatees are also in serious risk.

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#### t06afre

Joined May 11, 2009
5,934
• Species at the water surface will be affected first. As soon as crude oil sinks the bottom-dwelling species are also affected.
• Extensive death of fish and shrimp larvae can affect populations in a long time to come.
• 21 aquatic mammal species, including several endangered, threatened by the spill.
• Five sea turtle species is located in the Gulf of Mexico, and move up to the beaches to lay eggs in the near future. All populations are threatened. The rare Kemp's Ridley species found only one place in the world: Located near the oil spill.
• Nine-protected dolphin species located in the northern parts of Mexico.
• Several species of shark are using the spring and summer to spawn in the oil-prone areas on the coast.
• The northern part of Mexico is an important spawning area for the endangered species bluefin tuna - also known as tuna. The fry are vulnerable to oil spills.
• Shrimp and oysters may also be affected. Oyster harvesting season starts on 1 May.
• breeding habitat for a variety of birds are threatened. This includes Louisiana's state bird brown pelican, which is already underway with their breeding season.
• Oil spill threatens beaches from Louisiana and as far east as northwestern Florida.
• Catch of fish, shrimps, crabs and oysters are the area's most important primary. Over 24 million commercial and private fishing trips took place in 2008.
• Total commercial catch of fish and shellfish that year was somewhat below 170000000(168335998) us $. Turnover was almost four times that amount. • 73 percent of all shrimp caught in the U.S. Gulf of Mexico. Source National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) As everybody can see this will end up as major natural catastrophe. This is very serious. So please refrain from making senseless or absurd comments on this topic. If you just are doing postings for "attention demanding" (trolling) please start a new thread. Last edited: #### jpanhalt Joined Jan 18, 2008 11,088 There are also reports that several people died in Mississippi yesterday too. People died in China, Siberia, and almost anywhere people live. How many sea turtles normally die each day? It is one thing to be concerned about this event. It is quite another to be alarmist and exaggerate it. Just spouting unverified numbers from the news media without any basis for comparison is meaningless. maxpower097 said: Were literally pumping the oil out of the ground into the ocean at a rate thousands if not hundreds of thousands of times more then normal seepage. Using your own numbers from Coal Oil Point,100 to 150 barrels of liquid petroleum per day is 5500 to 8250 gallons per day, every day, for many, many years. A thousand times that, as maxpower097 claims, is a far cry from 200,000 gallons per day for a week or so due to this incident. Most important, Coal Point is just one of a large, but unknown number of seepage vents around the world. It is quite clear that contamination of the oceans with petroleum by mankind is much less than occurs naturally when one considers it on an annualized basis. One concern that is beginning to surface is the absence of interviews with survivors from the oil rig. With 9/11, Katrina, and the recent coal mine collapse, such interviews were all over the news. Why is that not the case here? Was the blow out intentionally set? Who was involved? John #### maxpower097 Joined Feb 20, 2009 816 Well jpanhalt when it happens in your backyard where you've been fishing for over 30 years you might take it a lil personal too. I have many friends who are stone crabbers its going to ruin, I have other friends that are fishing guides its going to ruin, I have many friends with hotels on the beach its going to ruin, I have another friend who owns a seafood distributor its going to ruin, and the list goes on and on. And as EVERYONE IS SAYING!!!! WE DON"T KNOW HOW BAD IT REALLY IS YET, WERE JUST GUESSING! It could easily be in the millions of gallons a day. Your also comparing small seeps around the world to half the worlds seepage coming out of one hole in one place. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36897088/ns/us_news-environment http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100503/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gulf_oil_spill_alaska T06AFRE who are you talking too? Seaturtles don't normally wash up dead on shore by the dozen from natural seepage. Last edited: #### VoodooMojo Joined Nov 28, 2009 505 Box to contain oil leak touches down on Gulf floor SymbolPriceChangeXOM 63.70-0.19^GSPC 1,110.88-17.27^IXIC AP  The containment vessel is lowered into the Gulf of Mexico at the site of the Deepwater Horizon rig collapse, By HARRY R. WEBER, Associated Press Writer Harry R. Weber, Associated Press Writer  Fri May 7, 7:25 pm ET ON THE GULF OF MEXICO  A BP-chartered vessel lowered a 100-ton concrete-and-steel vault onto a ruptured well in the Gulf of Mexico on Friday, an important step in a delicate and unprecedented attempt to stop most of the gushing crude fouling the sea. Underwater robots guided the 40-foot-tall box into place. Now that the contraption is on the seafloor, workers will need at least 12 hours to let it settle and make sure it's stable before the robots can hook up a pipe and hose that will funnel the oil up to a tanker. "It appears to be going exactly as we hoped," BP spokesman Bill Salvin told The Associated Press on Friday afternoon, shortly after the four-story device hit the seafloor. "Still lots of challenges ahead, but this is very good progress." By Sunday, the box the size of a house could be capturing up to 85 percent of the oil. So far about 3 million gallons have leaked in an environmental crisis that has been unfolding since a deepwater drilling platform exploded April 20, sending toxic oil toward a shoreline of marshes, shipping channels, fishing grounds and beaches. Eleven workers were killed in the accident. The lowering of the containment device was a slow-moving drama playing out 50 miles from Louisiana's coast, requiring great precision and attention to detail. It took about two weeks to build the 40-foot box, and the effort to lower it by crane and cable to the seafloor began late Thursday night. After it hit bottom Friday afternoon, the crane gradually eased off to allow it to settle. "We are essentially taking a four-story building and lowering it 5,000 feet and setting it on the head of a pin," Salvin said. The task became increasingly urgent as toxic oil crept deeper into the bays and marshes of the Mississippi Delta. A sheen of oil began arriving on land last week, and crews have been putting out floating barriers, spraying chemical dispersants and setting fire to the slick to try to keep it from coming ashore. But now the thicker, stickier goo  arrayed in vivid, brick-colored ribbons  is drawing ever closer to Louisiana's coastal communities. There are still untold risks and unknowns with the containment box: The approach has never been tried at such depths, where the water pressure is enough to crush a submarine, and any wrong move could damage the leaking pipe and make the problem worse. The seafloor is pitch black and the water murky, though lights on the robots illuminate the area where they are working. If the box works, another one will be dropped onto a second, smaller leak at the bottom of the Gulf. At the same time, crews are drilling sideways into the well in hopes of plugging it up with mud and concrete, and they are working on other ways to cap it. The well has been spewing about 200,000 gallons a day in the nation's biggest oil spill since the nearly 11 million gallons lost in the Exxon Valdez disaster in Alaska in 1989. The cause of the blast has not been determined, but investigators have been focusing on the so-called blowout preventer. Federal regulators told The Associated Press that they are going to examine whether these last-resort cutoff valves on offshore oil wells are reliable. At Hopedale, a fishing community in St. Bernard Parish, La., that has been a staging area for efforts to protect inlets and bayous, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal stepped out of a helicopter and held aloft a tennis ball-size hunk of tarry oil he said a fisherman had retrieved near the mouth of the Mississippi River. Oil was reported moving west of the Mississippi toward fishing and resort villages on the Louisiana coast. After a flyover, Jindal described the orange and brown goo surrounding Louisiana's Chandeleur Islands as resembling "a ring around your bathtub." Several members of Congress flew over the spill and then visited Hopedale on Friday as well. U.S. Rep. Ed Markey, D-Mass., chairman of the House Energy and Environment Subcommittee, said hearings on the explosion will start next week. "Lives were lost, livelihoods ruined," Markey said. "The lessons that will be learned will become laws." BP plans to sell the petroleum it recovers after separating out the large amounts of natural gas and seawater  something that industry experts said should not present much of a problem. "That's something they do for every oil well," said Don Van Nieuwenhuise, director of petroleum geoscience programs at the University of Houston. "They'll refine it and crack it and everything, and by the time it gets in your gas tank, you'll never even know it was in the water." The oil's planned destination, BP's Texas City, Texas, refinery, has its own checkered history. An explosion there in 2005 killed 15 people and injured 170. Regulators last October hit BP with a record$87 million fine for safety violations.
___ Associated Press writers Cain Burdeau, Vicki Smith and Ray Henry in Louisiana, and Michael Graczyk in Houston contributed to this report.

#### jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,088
An AP preliminary report on the cause cites the rapid conversion of "crystalline methane" to gas, which probably refers to solid methane-water clathrates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate), caused a pressure surge that led to the blow out.

I wonder whether this tent over the leak may be susceptible to the same sort of event and be toppled by such an explosive expansion of gas. Let's hope not.

John

#### retched

Joined Dec 5, 2009
5,208
BP will be telling the folks that are affected to sue mother nature.

She is in BIG trouble.

This, being one of the deepest wells being mined, is a study in deep sea science. We dont know a whole lot about things at those depths.

It is quite deep and quite a lot of pressure. Ma' nature does weird things at such pressures, especially over time.