Dogs and toddlers

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Wendy, Dec 23, 2011.

  1. Wendy

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  2. maxpower097

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    Its a spanial. They howl when the wind blows. Whats really cool if you can find it is the old photo gallaries of the old pit bulls from the 189X-19XX that were known as babysitter dogs. Pitbulls were known as baby sitters back in the day and there are 10's or 1000's of pictures of them with their babies. There quite cute to see this old picture that looks straight out of a movie and have a big pit bull in it you could of pulled right off a rap video.
     
  3. strantor

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    reminds me of some old cartoons my grandma used to play when I would visit as a kid. They were the super old cartoons, black and white. Maybe it was popeye, but anyways I can remember a baby in a fenced in area outside, like a big kennell, with a dog, and the dog was babysitting the baby.
     
  4. KJ6EAD

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    The dogs only occasionally tear up the child.
     
  5. strantor

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    as do human babsitters. I've seen enough of those "sitter abuse" stories to make me sick.
     
  6. maxpower097

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    a proper screened and trained dog would never do that. Did you the most aggressive dog in the world is the Jack Russle Terrier? Followed by the chow and german shepard. Its also fact that pit bulls are more mentally stable then shepards or belgians.
     
  7. tracecom

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    I would have guessed the Chihuahua; I have never been around one that didn't growl and snap at me. If they were as big as Great Danes, they would be more dangerous than grizzly bears.
     
  8. maxpower097

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    Same with me and Jack Russles. They act nice and sweet and snuggle up to your leg. You start petting them, then within 5 minutes it never fails and the dog goes nuts and freaks out snapping and biting. Most are not reported because they just break the skin. Pits get a bad rap because when theres a big one that attacks it does severe damage. But 99.999% of the time its a humans fault. Whether it be a kid taunting the dog every day for 2 years then the dog learns to jump the fence, to the idiot gansters that train their dogs as protection dogs... That always pisses me off. A pit bull that loves his family needs not protection training. He will defend his family to the death with no training at all.
     
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  9. MaxHeadRoom

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    An old thread but still relevant, I have an interest in animal behavior and something I have followed and theorized on is episodes of pet dogs attacking their owners , especially the young of, it often occurs when otherwise placid dogs come in contact with other pets and a small child or baby is added to the mix, something is triggered in the animals mind as though the pack mentality takes over.
    I have personally witnessed a similar possible scenario, fortunately there were sufficient adults present.

    Quote today:
    Police said a woman was killed by her own dog in Rocky View County, Alta., Saturday evening.
    RCMP said the boxer-pitbull cross initially attacked a three-year-old girl, leaving her with serious but not life-threatening injuries, before turning on the 49-year-old woman.
    Police were not able to confirm the relationship between the woman and the toddler, and they have yet to release the woman's name.
    The attack happened shortly after 6 p.m.
    Police said the deceased was the dog's owner, and the attack happened in her home near the hamlet of Langdon.
    "If family is able to show that safety measures have been put in place and no future attacks would happen, the person could still in theory keep the dog."
    Witnesses reported to police that the dog had not shown previous signs of aggression and was otherwise well-behaved.
    The woman was pronounced dead at the scene, and the toddler was transported to the Alberta Children's Hospital in Calgary.

    Max.
     
  10. Reloadron

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    Alex Bear Sleep.jpg

    The little girl in the above is our granddaughter Alexis and the dog is Bear. I want to say the picture is about 10 years old. From birth Alexis formed a bond with Bear he seemed to have a maternal thing with her. At age two she could grab him by his jowls and literally lead him around the house. While Bear, a mixed breed Golden Retriever and maybe Weimaraner peaked at about 130 Lbs and was one very large dog. She would place blankets on him and curl up in his mid section and nap. That dog would not move until she woke from her naps.

    During a Christmas Holiday Season we were all visiting at my mother's house. Suddenly I heard my daughter yell in the living room. I ran in to find my daughter cornered by Bear and Bear growling meaner than I had ever heard. Yelled at Bear and he backed right down and I asked my daughter what the heck happened. Apparently my daughter was unhappy with something Alexis did which she felt warranted a spanking. I think she managed a single bad move towards Alexis and Bear was having no part of it. He didn't attack or bite but backed my daughter literally into a corner and placed himself between my daughter and granddaughter. He was very protective of that little girl and if he felt she was threatened he decided he was her self appointed protector. Bear went from 8 weeks to 14 1/2 years with us and will always be viewed as one of the best and most family orientated dogs we have ever owned. Hard to believe Alexis is now 14 but she always remembers the time she had with Bear.

    Over 30 years we have had dogs and peaked at three at one point and fortunately they have all been wonderful pets who shared in our lives. I have seen and known families with aggressive dogs but all of ours have been more the good nature type. Nice when guest refer to your dogs as "mellow". :)

    Ron
     
  11. MaxHeadRoom

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    I recall one particular sad incident a few years ago in the US where a family lived in a rural setting where they had a young girl that grew up with their dog, the neighbor also had a dog which got on with both girl and her dog and played together,
    On one occasion the the father took his daughter out to one of his work shops and left his daughter playing with the dog, evidently the dog next door joined them with no problem.
    The father had occasion to go outside and found his daughter had apparently been savaged by the dogs and close to death, after rushing to hopital she died of her wounds.
    Oddly the parents were charged with murder and served 5 years before being exonerated.
    There are quite a few other events of a similar nature that I could relate, most of a close personal nature.
    But the incident with otherwise passive dogs has happened in this country far too often. I see in the US that deaths from family dogs is primarily infants!
    Max.
     
  12. WBahn

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    There's no denying that family dogs can and have killed family members. But then so have family bicycles, family cars, family guns, family stairs, family medicines, family cleaning supplies, family knives, family pools, family trees, and family trash bags, not to mention other family members, as well. While I don't have any data, I would be willing to place a fairly large wager that the incidents where family dogs protect family members far, far outweigh the number of incidents where they do significant harm. It is almost never reported, even locally, when a dog protects an infant but it is often reported nationally or even internationally, when a dog significantly injures an infant.
     
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  13. Reloadron

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    Well Max, I'll tell you this. While Bear was a wonderful dog and while I trusted Bear, I would never, regardless of how much I trusted any of our dogs leave a dog alone with a child. I guess when you read enough stories about a good dog doing something bad which can't be explained common sense dictates not to leave a dog alone with a child. Sometimes well intention people just do foolish things. This is why we read stories about people of good intention and children mauled by a dog.
    I guess I don't understand that as like I mentioned, as much as I may trust a dog I just can not leave a child alone with a dog and that includes an infant. I guess I don't want my friends reading about me.

    Ron
     
  14. MaxHeadRoom

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    It is not my intent to paint a bleak picture on the nature of dog behavior, but to be as objective as possible in a scientific way as to what occurs when an animal, in this case domestic dogs, behave in a certain way, there are many ways where the behavior of dogs indicate its normal inherited instinctive behavioral habits in every day life and most owners are as so used to them they maybe aware of them but ignore them as normal and harmless, and many of these instinctive stimulants are never needed in its normal domestic life and lie dormant until the animal is exposed to a scenario for the first time, this is where the confusion can occur for the animal and it reacts in a way which is purely instinctive.
    In many of these circumstances, the attempted intervention of the owner has no effect on the animal in question.
    My unqualified opinion to date.;)
    Max.
     
  15. WBahn

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    I don't have any problem with any of this -- I agree.

    I did some looking yesterday (a half hour or so, not very extensive) and the found the following as far as numbers and nature.

    In the U.S. it appears that there are roughly 20 to 30 fatal dog attacks each year out of about 80 fatal animal encounters each year. The biggest group of fatal encounters is stinging insects and the second largest are "other mammals", the vast majority of which are farm animals, principally horses and cattle. Dogs are the third largest and all of the other categories are pretty much all in the single digits.

    Of course, fatal attacks are only a fraction of serious attacks and those are only a fraction of "dog bites". It's estimated that there are about 50 million domestic dogs in the U.S. and that there are about 4 million dog bites a year but about 80% of them require little or no treatment while about 800,000 require some kind of medical attention (usually home treatment such as some antiseptic and a bandage) and something under half that require some kind of treatment at a medical facility, usually treat-and-release but certainly up to and including extensive hospital stays and surgery.

    In looking several sites that examined records (some just media reports and others law enforcement records) spanning several decades that looked at that nature of the dogs involved in fatal and/or severe dog attacks, several factors stood out as being dominant. I don't have them in front of me so I'm going from memory, but they identified six or seven common preventable factors including things like dogs that had no regular positive interactions with humans (such as dogs that are kept chained up outside) versus your "family dog" situation, dogs whose owners had records of abuse/neglect, lack of someone being around that could intervene, inability of the victim to interact properly with the dog, and a couple others (I think not spaying/neutering the dog was another one) . They found that 80% of the fatal incidents included at least four of those factors and that it was extremely rare for an fatal attack that didn't include at least one of them.
     
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  16. justtrying

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    A dog should never be left alone with a child for a simple reason that a child may (and likely will) eventually do something that will cause a dog to react defensively. Virtually all dog bites/attacks are defensive in nature, virtually all dog agression is fear aggression. This is to say that people around dogs that exhibit such behavior have failed to provide it with a stable and safe environment.

    20180916_184500.jpg
     
  17. MaxHeadRoom

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    Not all are caused this way, I have witnessed behavior of dogs which belong to family members and get along normally just fine, on one occasion another family member was visiting with a baby in a crib, the crib was on the floor with adults nearby, one of the dogs approached the crib which resulting in both appear to be fighting over who was in control of the infant, the altercation was stopped before it escalated too far. Left unattended the baby could have been unintentionally harmed by purely instinctive behavior of the animal.
    The cause of child attacks are of a nature that it cannot be explained just 'By the dogs being provoked'.
    There are all kinds of inherited instincts that can lie dormant in any breed of dog, it just takes some trigger to bring it to the surface.
    Max.
     
  18. AlbertHall

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  19. MaxHeadRoom

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  20. justtrying

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    That was kind of the point I was trying to make but I did not really express it well enough. Dogs and children are very similar in this regard. Have you ever spent time watching toddlers? They behave the same way, a 1-2 year old can approach an infant and just hit it for no reason... There are many speculations to such behavior as not everyone does it. Is it jealousy, testing boundaries? Ultimately this is why dogs and children are a very bad mix. I find pictures of children left alone with a dog to be very irresponsible. How much patience should a dog have and as they age do the owners know where their threshold lies? Dogs are great when treated with respect they deserve

    Good news story:

    https://abc7ny.com/pets-animals/pit-bull-grabs-baby-by-diaper-saves-her-from-fire/3589804/
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
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