Diabetic noninvasive glucose monitoring watches.

Thread Starter

SamR

Joined Mar 19, 2019
5,019
Do they actually work or just snake oil? The reviews I've seen are mostly for those that Bluetooth connect with an embedded glucose monitor. But... Are the noninvasive watches even close? I know that the one I have now for monitoring every but glucose is not quite accurate but fairly close (a bit low) for blood pressure, Oxygen saturation, heart rate, etc. so was thinking of "upgrading" to one that includes glucose monitoring. I'm type 2 and don't monitor regularly because I'm pretty stable and the results are almost always the same (low 100's) and my A1C stays in the 6's. I do take an oral tablet daily.
 

killivolt

Joined Jan 10, 2010
835
I don’t think they have it yet, mine is the same an apple watch. You need something like what I’ve seen on TV is a device planted on an arm or shoulder and it is picked up by your phone as far as I know.

kv
 

Thread Starter

SamR

Joined Mar 19, 2019
5,019
Yeah, that was what most of the reviews talked about. Scant info on noninvasive other than to say they have been working on it since 91. But is the noninvasive even close to correct? Since I'm not on insulin that might be close enuff for me.
 

Thread Starter

SamR

Joined Mar 19, 2019
5,019
Since high school when I was 6'-2" and 170# I've been as high as 280 and as low as 150 but usually 240. After my kidney removal I dropped down to 190 from 240 and slowly went back up and now going back do226 and currently 226 and still have a lot of fat to lose instead of muscle loss. It's a constant battle cutting out fats and sugar.
 

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,493
Apple has been spending big bucks on this for over a decade and there is no sign of a commercial product yet, despite "progress". Blood glucose monitoring is not expected in the big redesign coming for Watch X on the tenth anniversary. I'm apparently a late-adopter. I scoffed at the original Apple watch but I'm happily wearing and loving my watch version 8. Love it.

https://www.macrumors.com/2023/02/22/apple-blood-glucose-monitoring-technology/
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
29,851
I looked into this a little over a week ago for a discussion I was having with someone else and the consensus among people not pushing the products is that, the best, the technology is nowhere near good enough to be useful and many experts in these fields do not believe it every will be or even can be. We looked up the specs on one of these watches (don't recall which one) and it's accuracy was +/- 60 mg/dl, making it absolutely useless.
 

LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
3,935
Why bother with gimmicks ?
Get yourself on a high-Fat, low, or zero-Carbohydrate-Diet,
( aka, a Ketogenic-Diet )
and You will have ZERO signs or symptoms of any type of Diabetes in less than ~90-Days.

Your average M.D. has about ~3-hours of training on Diet and Supplements( Vitamins and Minerals ),
so they basically have no clue about Diabetes.
They are trained to prescribe Pharmaceuticals for any, and everything.

Check out these YouTube Channels for info on Diet and Supplements ...........

Dr. Eric Berg DC
Dr. Sten Ekberg
Dr. Boz [Annette Bosworth, MD] ( usually ~45-min to ~1-hour videos )
KenDBerryMD
Dr. John Bergman D.C. ( usually longer Videos )
Low Carb Down Under ( a variety of Doctors from Australia )
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wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,493
Yup, diabetes type 2 is curable without drugs (as are many cancers). Here's another good source:
https://www.drfuhrman.com/
His site has recently changed to emphasize supplement sales, which I'm not wild about, but his books and videos are great.
 

Thread Starter

SamR

Joined Mar 19, 2019
5,019
+/- 60 mg/dl, making it absolutely useless.
That's what I was looking for. Thanks. Snake oil then! I really can't fathom how they can do a noninvasive blood chemistry test. Pulse and maybe blood pressure and oxygenation but not glucose level. I'll save my money...
 

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,493
That's what I was looking for. Thanks. Snake oil then! I really can't fathom how they can do a noninvasive blood chemistry test. Pulse and maybe blood pressure and oxygenation but not glucose level. I'll save my money...
Oh it's coming, but not in the next couple years. Maybe 5? It'll probably involve a near-IR laser. Apple has achieved proof-of-concept but it could still be years to a viable product.
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
29,851
That's what I was looking for. Thanks. Snake oil then! I really can't fathom how they can do a noninvasive blood chemistry test. Pulse and maybe blood pressure and oxygenation but not glucose level. I'll save my money...
The idea, on the surface, isn't that far fetched. They are trying to make measurements on the skin perspiration based on the assumption that such perspiration contains something (not necessarily glucose) that can be measured and that correlates strongly with blood glucose levels. Certainly you can dream up all kinds of mechanisms that might make this doable -- the question is whether any of those mechanisms actually exist and, if so, with a sufficiently strong correlation. The people pushing the products, of course, are claiming that they have achieved this, but it appears the evidence is not (yet) on their side.
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
29,851
Why bother with gimmicks ?
Get yourself on a high-Fat, low, or zero-Carbohydrate-Diet,
( aka, a Ketogenic-Diet )
and You will have ZERO signs or symptoms of any type of Diabetes in less than ~90-Days.
Pretty bold and categorical claim -- and therefore demonstrably false with a single counterexample.

I am a big fan of a low-carb (LC) lifestyle (though, like any healthy lifestyle, for most people it is very difficult to maintain indefinitely). Not only for effective management of diabetes, but so many other factors including blood pressure and cholesterol.

After seven months of religiously staying strictly low carb (<25g/day, nearly all from leafy green vegetables) I still needed to take insulin to keep my sugars under control. I would consider that a sign of diabetes that did not go to zero after less than ~90 days. The amount of insulin was drastically reduced and my highs and lows were significantly moderated, but they most certainly did not disappear. Monitoring of my blood glucose was still very much a necessity -- even more so since if I didn't catch that my morning sugars were trending lower and adjust my insulin accordingly, I could easily induce a life-threatening hypoglycemic episode. Less common (in my case) are spikes due to induced neoglucogenesis. So I don't consider seeking better ways to monitor blood glucose to be bothering with gimmicks.

I know one person that has kept their carb intake under 10g/day for years and they still have to take about 100 units of insulin a day (down from nearly 500 units before they discovered LC).

I know numerous people that have been able to get off all diabetes meds, including insulin, by staying LC, but most still need to monitor their sugars carefully because relatively minor fluctuations in activity can cause either spikes or crashes. The simple fact is that they are still diabetic and their body still has difficulty regulating their blood sugar effectively.
 

LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
3,935
"" Pretty bold and categorical claim ""

Yes it is, and I stand by it.

If You do even a cursory investigation into how and why Ketosis works,
You will have come across the assertion that Sugar is a HIGHLY ADDICTIVE substance,
no matter the character/form of the source of that Sugar.

Your Mind will come up with thousands of perfectly "legitimate-sounding" reasons
why You "need" some Sugar.

The only "Anti-Cheat" solution is to measure your Ketones twice a day,
until You get the SUGAR-ADDICTION under control.
It takes a minimum of 3-days with ZERO Sugar/Carbohydrates
for your body to start producing Ketones.

AFTER your Body starts producing Ketones, your physical ADDICTION to Sugar is broken,
and You will not experience any hunger,
but, You may fall back into bad-habits,
which will almost always lead to eating or drinking some form of SUGAR.
"" Just a little bit "", "" I'll have just one Beer ""

People quite often use eating as a form of "entertainment",
this can be a very challenging habit to overcome.

If You fall back into bad-habits or routines, it's time to start over from scratch.

Not everyone has the willpower to overcome a Severe, Lifelong, ADDICTION,
but if You want the benefits bad enough, You can persevere until You make it.

It helps to have a "support-team", or a reliable spouse, to get through the ADDICTION phase.

A "Low-Carb" Diet is basically an excuse to get some Sugar,
and to return to using eating as a form of "entertainment",
but it's still a whole lot better than the "SAD" ( Standard-American-Diet ).

There are very good reasons why America has more Morbidly-Obese people per-capita
that any other place in the World.
This includes the highest number of cases of Life-Threatening-Diabetes.
It's because of an ADDICTION to a Diet of garbage, super-processed ""foods"",
and generous quantities of High-Fructose-Corn-Syrup added to almost everything.

Having a serious-Ailment,
and using it to play "the-Victim-Card", can be a deadly, and miserable, game.
Some people will hang on to playing the part of a Victim as if their very Life depends upon it,
and there is quite often, absolutely nothing You can do about it,
so start getting used to the idea that You can't save everybody.

You can lead a Horse to Water, but You can't make him drink.
You have been presented a proven-solution, and reliable technical-resources,
take it or leave it, it's up to YOU.
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WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
29,851
You can stand by it all you want -- when you make a categorical claim, all it takes is a single counter example to prove the claim false. That's been provided.
 

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,493
A single counter example is called an anecdote. Without rigorous examination of the particulars, it does not refute the claim.

I remember a talk by Dr. Fuhrman in which he talked about a few of his patients that failed to get the expected results of his "nutritarian" diet. In every case he identified a handful of deviations from the diet. Some of the slips the patients knew about and others were simply due to lack of knowledge. Based on what I've seen, the latter problem is probably the greater one in the general population.

I'm not suggesting you're in either camp, a diet cheater or an ignorant eater, and I don't deny your personal data. There will always be outliers and exceptional cases. I'm just doubling down on the thesis that type 2 diabetes is a lifestyle disease. The ability to manage it with diet alone has long been proven and is not much in dispute in the nutrition world. Medical doctors are not trained in nutrition - I've had far more formal training than a typical MD - and they are instead trained to dispense medicines. I wouldn't expect them to know otherwise.
 

LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
3,935
Anyone can decide to not follow the established rules and then claim the thing doesn't work.
That happens thousands, or even millions, of times per day.

But that doesn't mean that if You follow the rules,
that there's a chance it might not work,
if it doesn't work, it means that You actually didn't follow all the rules,
possibly because of a misunderstanding,
or an outright lie. ( we ARE talking about a severe addiction here, and addicts will lie )

Ketosis knocks-out Diabetes 100% of the time, it's a thoroughly proven FACT.

Sugar, and highly-refined/processed Carbohydrates, CAUSE Diabetes,
nothing else causes Diabetes or "Insulin-Resistance".

Diabetes is simply a dangerous case of very advanced "Insulin-Resistance".
"Insulin-Resistance" is caused by
excessive Glucose being directly ingested,
or created internally from other compounds,
over a long period of time, usually years.

Here is a good overview ...............
Click watch on YouTube.


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WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
29,851
A single counter example is called an anecdote. Without rigorous examination of the particulars, it does not refute the claim.
It does when the claim is categorical, as this one is. The claim is that if you follow a ketogenic diet, that you WILL have ZERO signs of ANY type of diabetes in LESS than ~90 days.

It's not the underlying substance of the claim I am taking issue with, it is the categorical nature of it. The claim maintains that it is absolute, without exception.

It would be like saying that no human can be taller than eight feet. If I identify someone that is 8' 1" tall, that isn't an anecdote, that is a counterexample that proves the claim false.

If, on the other hand, the claim is that humans are almost never taller than eight feet, NOW identifying a hundred individuals that are over 8' tall is merely anecdotal evidence and only proves that SOME humans are taller than that -- but that is allowed by the claim because the claim wasn't categorical.
 
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