Hi All

My project described on this forum at http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=52957 was closed. It seems that is was closed as it would void my insurance due to the idea not being approved and would be hazardous. I am not in the US and was wanting to express my frustration.

My project does work with live AC and injects power back into the grid - not illegal but may pose contractual obligation issues as the device would not be approved/accredited. In itself not a reason to close the thread.

It is a dangerous exercise to work with 240V ac - acknowledged - I already work in this area and understand same. It also has the anti islanding built in - this was ignored.

I posted this project idea with the hope for feed back on the circuit and to learn from experienced people.

I would also like to express amazement that innovation cannot be explored as it is too dangerous - I am not building a Frankenstein monster! Driving a car can be as dangerous as mains ac electricity. But with seat belts and health and safety regulation the risk of danger is minimized.

I will perhaps re-post with some changes that make it safe and does not void my insurance and with enough 'do not do this yourself' stamped on it.

Peace

Al

 

Unless it is persuasive, arguing with a moderator is futile. This site is extremely cautious about anything line connected (and the rules are pretty clearly spelled out) and/or high voltage related.

It works down to this, if a project can not pass muster on our safety requirements (and I do not believe your project can) it will not be allowed here. There are lots of other sites that will allow it, and you can discuss it there, but not here.

While I do not always agree with the moderators take I always respect it. Your project does sound interesting, but it also clearly violates the rules for AAC. You can discuss other projects you have, and be welcome.

The core reasons (besides OP safety) is safety of some of our beginners. This is primarily an educational forum, for all levels. Another issue is litigation, this site is based in the USA, one of the most litigious places in the world. I want this site to still be here in 10 years.

 

Unless it is persuasive, arguing with a moderator is futile.

Agreed.

This site is extremely cautious about anything line connected (and the rules are pretty clearly spelled out) and/or high voltage related.

They have been discussed, but I can't find where they are actually spelled out. There certainly does not seem to be any consistency.

The core reasons (besides OP safety) is safety of some of our beginners. This is primarily an educational forum, for all levels. Another issue is litigation, this site is based in the USA, one of the most litigious places in the world. I want this site to still be here in 10 years.

That is often stated, but it is easy to identify a few people on this forum who should not be messing with flyback transformers, plasma speakers, and like projects.

All in all, if there are going to be safety rules, they need to be published and followed.

As for litigation, expressing the need for rules that are never created, creating rules that aren't followed, and/or exercising arbitrary editorial control would seem to be more an invitation to problems than a method of effective risk mitigation. Thankfully, those with editorial control are the ones who need to worry most, not me.

John

 

Your project is to hazardous as most of the people in here are not certified to work with mains related projects. And all equipment connected to the mains must be approved. The forum rules are to protect people against them self. Like Bill, I do not agree 100%. Then it comes to the moderators decision . But as an average I think they do a good job.

 

While your project may not be dangerous to you, what about the poor lineman trying to restore the power on the mains? how does he know that your feeding power in to a supposed dead circuit?

 

Children can read this forum.

A person with zero electrical know-how can read your thread, try the schematics, and burn their home down, killing themselves or family in the process.

Regardless how much you respect 240vAC, the next guy to read the thread, and attempt the project may not.

The frustration comes from you thinking only of yourself.

There are many other people to think of when trying to publicize this very dangerous, poorly designed and illegal in most of our membership areas as well as where our server is located.

Proper protections are not applied. If grid power goes out, your system will power the grid. The power company employee has no idea what you have done.

You need a grid-tie capable meter to be installed by the power company. Many of these can disconnect the alternate power source from the grid during problems.

Also, the power company has monitors that check to see if anything is out of phase for more than a few cycles.

You could continually knock power out to your neighbors. You would need to incorporate a system to yank your system off the grid if it noticed the load causing phase difference.

All of this is the job of microcontrollers/processors.

Not to mention pricey contactors and the such.

 

A fair point about the safety of other who may use this circuit but is it needed? Is it not correct that Try at your own risk is implied? I am an electrical engineer by my countries standards (just finished training) and that is what i take from it.

As this is a website dedicated to learning and discussion, AC mains is a crucial part to that. Should all the tutorials be removed that have any high voltage AC in them?

The anti islanding is definately somthing that should be discussed as well as other AC HV related concerns. A forum where people can discuss before zapping themselves is better than a head in the sand approach.

Also that circuit did include anti islanding in it. I have indeed moved the discussion to another board and have some changes that I need to make to make it safe.

Take care all.

 

This site, as well as all others on the internet, has character due to the synergy between owner and moderators. It is what it is and should be but one of many resources available to inquisitive minds.