# Can time exist without matter?

Discussion in 'Physics' started by socratus, Dec 10, 2013.

1. ### socratus Thread Starter Active Member

Mar 26, 2012
267
3
Can time exist without matter?
=.
According to Newton the answer is  Yes
According to Einstein the answer is  No
Who is right, who is wrong?
#
Newton declared that time is absolute and wrote that time
 flows equably without relation to anything external.
Einstein had another opinion.
According to SRT / GRT time is relative and depends on the mass and speed
It means that different moving mass-bodies can create different time.
It also means that space and time is only a result of some physical process
of moving mass / moving particles. The cause for time and space to be able
to appear is moving mass (moving particles).
=============
Eternity and Time.
a)
There is different *gravity time*.
The *gravity time* depends on mass / matter and its movement.
For example, every planet has its own *time* (gravity time)
b)
There is Minkowski negative -4D timespace (without Newtonian matter).
Minkowski -4D is *timeless* - zero vacuum continuum: T=0K.
T=0K is an eternal continuum, an absolute reference frame.
c)
In different local parts of *eternal vacuum * T=0K is possible to see
planets with their own *time*. For us the *Earth time* is absolute,
but from vacuum's point of view (Einsteinium) *Earth time* is relative.
============..

File size:
158.3 KB
Views:
31
File size:
31.1 KB
Views:
29
2. ### WBahn Moderator

Mar 31, 2012
20,068
5,666
They both are, with some probability. When you open the box, count the cat scratches and that's who wins.

3. ### KJ6EAD Senior Member

Apr 30, 2011
1,426
364
Maybe. See humorous reference to Heisenberg and Schrödinger in WBahn's post above.

4. ### #12 Expert

Nov 30, 2010
17,840
9,178
Hmmm...I've heard of space-time, but not mass-time. Mass experiences time, but if a time falls in a forest and no mass is there to observe it, does time still happen?

5. ### WBahn Moderator

Mar 31, 2012
20,068
5,666
That's a heavy question, dude!

6. ### socratus Thread Starter Active Member

Mar 26, 2012
267
3
d)
If quantum of light travels at constant speed c=1 its time *is frozen*.
(timeless particle)
The *time* appears when quantum of light changes its speed c=1.
This is not *gravity time* it is another kind of *time*.
The process when quantum of light keeps its changeable condition
is called *personal time* of quantum of light .
The *personal time* of quantum of light is explained by SRT.
============

File size:
186.4 KB
Views:
28
7. ### WBahn Moderator

Mar 31, 2012
20,068
5,666
So at what temperture does time freeze? What if you heat the quantum of light above that temperture? Does time become a liquid or does it sublime straight to a gas? I could be either, since "time flowing" applies to either. But it must be a gas since "time fills all space".

8. ### Metalmann Active Member

Dec 8, 2012
700
224
Without mass, you wouldn't know anything about time; such as brain matter.

rc3po likes this.
9. ### WBahn Moderator

Mar 31, 2012
20,068
5,666
Hence the adage, "Time doesn't matter."

Metalmann likes this.

Mar 26, 2012
267
3
11. ### shortbus AAC Fanatic!

Sep 30, 2009
4,520
2,556
I didn't even know Mater was Catholic, or that he attended mass.

File size:
97.6 KB
Views:
23
12. ### WBahn Moderator

Mar 31, 2012
20,068
5,666
How else could he hope to gain enlightenment? But, he only attends those services that few others attend, since he insists on a light mass.

13. ### socratus Thread Starter Active Member

Mar 26, 2012
267
3
I try to explain my ideas simple and logical using the old well- known
laws and formulas. I don't know why *shortbus , Wbahn, PackratKing*
begin to speak metaphysically like Fritjof Capra, David Bohm, John Polkinghorne . .. . . .

14. ### davebee Well-Known Member

Oct 22, 2008
539
47
Socratus, your discussions need to include more of your own thoughts and ideas, not just thoughts and ideas that other people have published.

#12, shortbus and PackratKing like this.
15. ### socratus Thread Starter Active Member

Mar 26, 2012
267
3
Everybody knows that before *big bang * was no space, no time.
But nobody can understand that * no space, no time* is zero vacuum.
==..
'But I don't want to go among mad people,' said Alice.
'Oh, you can't help that,' said the cat. 'We're all mad here.'
/Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. By Lewis Carroll /
==..

File size:
158.3 KB
Views:
25
File size:
31.1 KB
Views:
24
16. ### Wendy Moderator

Mar 24, 2008
20,993
2,731
No one knows anything of the sort.

Start from a false premise and you can prove anything.

shortbus likes this.
17. ### amilton542 Active Member

Nov 13, 2010
496
64
These kind of debates could go on until our existence is no more. Quite frankly, I've never seen the reasoning behind them; because so and so said and done this, etcetera.

Why not try and be somebody yourself? This is exactly what Newton did, and until this day it still makes cogs turn how the fruit cake of an alchemist he became to be did what he did.

Instead of trying to emulate our greatest minds, then why not come up with a theory of your own, gather the math and show the data, period.

18. ### WBahn Moderator

Mar 31, 2012
20,068
5,666
Simple answer to the thread title's question:

No, it can't. Unless it can.

Dec 8, 2012
700
224

20. ### socratus Thread Starter Active Member

Mar 26, 2012
267
3
What was before: an egg or a chicken?
What was before: big bang or vacuum?
Does big bang exist in vacuum or vice versa ?
What is the Universe Expanding Into?
==..

File size:
7.2 KB
Views:
26