calculate slew rate

Thread Starter

Rail Ranger

Joined Aug 22, 2006
15
i just took a practice exam of which a question took me at least one third the timed test to try to answer, causing me to miss one third of all 30 questions, it was question 16 of 30, and attached is the exam question. based on the given variables, i am at a complete loss on how to calculate by any kind of formula the answer desired. the question deals with calculating the minimum slew rate of an op-amp that can be used to avoid distortion. this practice test is from the electronic's technician program, if anyone is familiar with it. looking at the givens, one would see where i'm coming from at my distate for this program to learn electronics from as required text and computer program in my apprenticeship. the exam was for 90 minutes with just 30 problems.

i really don't know how to find the slew rate. what variables are needed to calculate slew rate to be able to answer the question?

anybody with the patience to elaborate, please do.

thanks in advance.
 

Attachments

beenthere

Joined Apr 20, 2004
15,819
Hi,

The relationship of frequency to time is T = 1/f. That tells you how fast the amp's output has to swing in order to keep up with the waveform. The magnitude of the signal gives the clue as to how many volts per unit of time the op amp has to be able to swing in order to make the slew rate (or at least not distort the waveform).

Just to have fun, figure the amswer in KV/fortnights.
 

Ron H

Joined Apr 14, 2005
7,014
You said the answer was 479V/ns? How come the page you posted says 436V/ns?

The formula for a sine wave is v=A*sin(wt), where A is the peak amplitude. The maximum slew rate of a sine wave occurs during zero crossings (zero radians, pi radians). To find the maximum slew rate, we need to find the derivative of A*sin(wt) at zero radians.

slewrate(max)=d(A*sin(wt))/dt=Aw*cos(wt), evaluated at wt=0.
A=v(rms)*sqrt(2) (this is the peak amplitude)
A=135*1.414=190.92V
cos(0)=1
w=2*pi*f=2*pi*624e6=3.921e9
slewrate(max)=190.92*3.921e9*1
slewrate(max)=748.5e9=748.5V/ns

This assumes that you only need unity gain. If you need gain, the slew rate must be multiplied by the gain.

I think both the answers you posted are wrong.

BTW, this is an impossible task for an op amp.
 

thingmaker3

Joined May 16, 2005
5,084
i just took a practice exam of which a question took me at least one third the timed test to try to answer, causing me to miss one third of all 30 questions
Good practice is to ignore any question that takes more than two minutes to answer. Go back to the unanswered questions once all others are done, time permitting.
 

Dave

Joined Nov 17, 2003
6,970
You said the answer was 479V/ns? How come the page you posted says 436V/ns?

The formula for a sine wave is v=A*sin(wt), where A is the peak amplitude. The maximum slew rate of a sine wave occurs during zero crossings (zero radians, pi radians). To find the maximum slew rate, we need to find the derivative of A*sin(wt) at zero radians.

slewrate(max)=d(A*sin(wt))/dt=Aw*cos(wt), evaluated at wt=0.
A=v(rms)*sqrt(2) (this is the peak amplitude)
A=135*1.414=190.92V
cos(0)=1
w=2*pi*f=2*pi*624e6=3.921e9
slewrate(max)=190.92*3.921e9*1
slewrate(max)=748.5e9=748.5V/ns

This assumes that you only need unity gain. If you need gain, the slew rate must be multiplied by the gain.

I think both the answers you posted are wrong.

BTW, this is an impossible task for an op amp.
Ron H has hit the nail on the head here. I think the key aspects that this question was testing was that you understand that you need to convert the RMS voltage to a peak voltage to calculate the Slew Rate, and that you can do some basic rearrangement of the Slew Rate formula. Also you need to recognise 748.5e+9 equates to 748.5 V/ns.

Dave
 

Thread Starter

Rail Ranger

Joined Aug 22, 2006
15
Good practice is to ignore any question that takes more than two minutes to answer. Go back to the unanswered questions once all others are done, time permitting.

appreciate your input, normally, i do just that, i bypass the hard ones, get the easiest done first, go back and tackle them again. all the while, using the print screen button and pasting into word to document my tests. found it useful too, buggy software and all, i have concrete evidence to present to the official who i need to see, to document where the program falls short.

anyhow, i got caught up in the question, determined to try to answer it, and failed it miserably. the beauty of the practice test? i can take it over again, until i'm ready for the final which requires a floppy, no turning back so to speak. still, even during the floppy, for real final exam, i can still use alt+tab and print screen buttons, to document my questions, to refer to, when i need to make corrections to my wrong answers. which also answers other related question from the other forum member, that being, why i had a wrong answer and the other answer that was generated at end of test. i only displayed the facts in my query.

thanks for your input though.
 

Thread Starter

Rail Ranger

Joined Aug 22, 2006
15
You said the answer was 479V/ns? How come the page you posted says 436V/ns?


i only posted the facts. of course my answer was wrong, at end of practice test i generated the correct answers to the test, of which the other answer was supposed to be correct.

keep in mind though, i'm approaching 50, never had calculus, trig, and barely passed algebra class after 30 years being out of school. i waited 9 years for this apprenticeship to open up for me, and find that the math is a chore here. i can follow along with the calculations, but need to see how they work to have some kind of understanding of the field here. i don't know half the terminology you presented to my query, and i know that is one definitely weak area in my head on how to pull a formula up and use it to come up with a solution. not knowing what you know, already backs me up to the wall, but, if the author didn't elaborate on the many ways to skin a cat so to speak to reach the common goal, then, in my opinion, the author didn't do his job at teaching me the concepts. of course, there is another concept to address here as well, that being the organization i work for that offered the apprenticeship electing to not provide us apprentices with adequate tools (tutors, professors, college classes) besides a book and the internet, it's no wonder many people ahead of me dropped out of the program finally allowing me to take on the challenge after 9 years of waiting my turn.

best kept secret i suppose, that of not getting the proper training, yet be subjected to the state requirements of apprenticeship to reach journeyman status. thus, the reason i now reach out to forums such as this. if i can't get the help needed on the job, i need to get it elsewhere.

i much appreciate your reply to my query, now to learn these calculus terms you posted and try to make some sense of your input.

once again, thank you very much.
 

Thread Starter

Rail Ranger

Joined Aug 22, 2006
15
Hi,

The relationship of frequency to time is T = 1/f. That tells you how fast the amp's output has to swing in order to keep up with the waveform. The magnitude of the signal gives the clue as to how many volts per unit of time the op amp has to be able to swing in order to make the slew rate (or at least not distort the waveform).

Just to have fun, figure the amswer in KV/fortnights.
kv i can figure to be kilovolts, but what's fortnights? i have no clue unless it's an adverb meaning the night before? now, that would be for fun.
 

Dave

Joined Nov 17, 2003
6,970
kv i can figure to be kilovolts, but what's fortnights? i have no clue unless it's an adverb meaning the night before? now, that would be for fun.
2 weeks, 14 days, 336 hours, 20160 minutes, 1209600 seconds.

Take your pick of those that suit your needs.

As for helping you out with your maths, you may wish to look at the reference section here at AAC, it has the majority of the mathematical formulas and terminology you are likely to come across during the course of your apprenticeship. This section is written as a reference section, so the core explanations may not be so obvious, if so post your questions here and someone will be able to point you in the right direction.

Dave
 
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