boat electric fuel pump circuit at hot idle fluctuates on and off

Thread Starter

sdowney717

Joined Jul 18, 2012
711
cleaned board with alcohol and also some closeups.
I would attach 3 originals here and 3 more in next post except a security token is missing??







here is a link to the album
https://picasaweb.google.com/105248911187594415233/PumpSchematic?authuser=0&feat=directlink

also test with digital meter shows no connection between those 3 6 9 pins

the pin 2 and 333 resistor are connected
the pin 1 and 333 resistor are not connected
I am glad I did a closeup to show the corner as I see what you mean.
I am using a 500 watt light and a samsung s850 set to the highest resolution and manual focus.
The lens is very close to the board perhaps 1/4 inch away.
 
Last edited:

cork_ie

Joined Oct 8, 2011
428
Thanks for the photos, we are fine now.
I can see the tracks much better and am absolutely clear of the layout.

It is 1:15 am here in Ireland and I've got to get to bed. I promise I will be back with a schematic within 24 Hours.

Hopefully I will be able to work out how the rev limiter works,but if not. there are plenty of very knowledgeable people here who will give us some help.
 

cork_ie

Joined Oct 8, 2011
428
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
Attached is a pdf of the circuit .

The rev limit is determined by the values of C4 & R6.

If you want to let me have the capacitor values I will try and do the calculations for you.

I think if you put a capacitor of the same value in parallel with C4 you will raise the rev limit.

It should be connected between Pin2 of the IC & ground.

If you can post the capacitor values someone here might be able to simulate the circuit in LT SPICE
 

Attachments

Thread Starter

sdowney717

Joined Jul 18, 2012
711
Thanks looks real good.
How about simply removing the rev limiter?
Then the relay would be most useful.

Determining SMD caps with no labels I dont know how.
why dont they label them?

Also you have C4 and C3 terminating nowhere?
are they terminating but you left off the connection dot?
 

cork_ie

Joined Oct 8, 2011
428
C3 & C4 terminate where the lines cross, unfortunately the online programme I used does not allow me to vary the size of the components.I have cleaned up the .png file to make it clearer for you. Please
find attached modified .png

There are markings on the capacitors, you will need to look closely with a magnifying glass . I can clearly see markings on the capacitor (yellow) at the bottom of the board in one of the pics attached in post #35

I will have a look at the circuit and see if there is some way to remove the rev limiter, I just need to work out exactly exactly how it is set in the first place.It looks like the output from stage 1 (rev limiter) is on pin 7

We are nearly there but could do with some help if anyone is watching. It might be worth posting the schematic as a new thread to see if anyone can fully decipher it. I would like to include the capacitor values before that if at all possible.
 

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Thread Starter

sdowney717

Joined Jul 18, 2012
711
"KE5" with a dash above the K. this is the only marked capacitor (next to resistor marked 205)

The electrolytic one on the other side of board is 22uf 50v.
I looked very carefully with a powerful glass and see no markings on the others.

http://www.edaboard.com/thread73363.html

Hi,
Only Polarized or Electrolytic SMD capasitors carry MARKINGS but no non-polar capacitors. In the early SMD days there was also marking for capacitors but not now. 104=100,000pF =100nF (simple add as many zeros to 10 for the first digit from right, in this case 4,,,,,, 10,0000) and like 101=100pF.
I have almost complete info on the SMD caps, resistors and semiconductors, any one wants contact me on:

raza_ra@walla.com
Also this here
http://library.solarbotics.net/pieces/parts_elect_pass_cap_code.html

A two symbol system is also used (this is more common for capacitors). The first symbol in the two digit system is a letter representing a number value; the second symbol is the multiplier (power of ten). All the values marked are in picoFarads.
according to that table
K = 2.4 number value
e = 4.5 multiplier
5 = ?? tolerance??
 
Last edited:

BSomer

Joined Dec 28, 2011
434
Those are all smd ceramic capacitor, very seldom do you find one that is marked with its value. The best way to find the values of those capacitors is to pull them from the board and measure with a cap meter or multimeter. You may be able to get an approximate value leaving them on the board.
 

JMW

Joined Nov 21, 2011
137
You have 3 options.
1) Check oil pressure on your gauge and if switch is dropping out at a pressure higher than rated closing pressure, change the switch.

2) Rewire your circuit so that Ue alternator warning light circuit operates your relay instead. Verify that pump stops when engine is stopped & charge light lit.

3) Bosch had a standalone relay on the K-Jetronic system that relied on an ignition pulse to remain closed. It is the perfect option as it comes on for 3 seconds when ignition is initially switched, to prime the system. After that it only closed in the presence of an ignition pulse, far more reliable than using an oil pressure switch. I am sure they are still available . They were fitted in several old (1980's -> early 1990's) Volvo, VW & Mercedes vehicles and I am sure you would get a good one at a car dismantlers.
This sounds like a good idea, except it is a gasoline powered boat. All ignition sources have to be suppressed. If there is a way of ensuring this, this idea is far and away the best. The next best is the alternator idiot light, building circuits to survive a marine environment is a job in itself.
 
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