Depending on who is doing the scoring I might even be on the spectrum. I have poor social skills and certainly have a knack for many engineering type things. In my school days I excelled in math and science but did poorly in every language related course. I can be very OCD in many ways. However, I have never been considered by my myself or anyone else as being Autistic. I believe that proves nothing. Just saying. The main reason for this is because the word was never in my vocabulary and I was never aware of the condition until I saw the movie "Rain Man" starring Dustin Hoffman and Tom Cruise.

Not familiar with measurement for the spectrum, so is there a gradation for it? Light Medium, Extreem? Rain Man syndrom?

Um, ya. Met a few with some quirks but nothing off the chart in terms to movements rhythmic body motions linked with hyper active mental abilities.

kv

Edit: Although, one of my Granddaughter's, the oldest twin, she will exhibit movement while speaking but not always, sitting upper body slight half round rotational movement, will continue after expressing her communication, especially if she is looking for afformation, like getting a part-time job, school subjects, grades always A student. Where as the younger displays none of those and is just average. So, maybe my grand-daughter now that I think about it.

 

No. I've been through the psych eval ringer a couple of times for some very sensitive positions early in life. I was in the PRP program for a while.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personnel_Reliability_Program

As a prior holder of a TS-SCI clearance, I think I have at least some idea of the ringer you went through although it probably doesn't hold a candle to what you experienced for PRP. But there's a lot I don't remember about even my own experience, and a lot I don’t know (never knew) about it. Especially the differences between the way things were done in your day vs my day vs now, what specifically and completely they try to glean from their data, and what they choose to do with their findings. I know they try to predict if you're stupid enough to inadvertently divulge national secrets, or of sufficiently bad character to intentionally do it. But do/did they test for autism among the battery? And if they do/did, and if they found it, would they consider it a bad thing or a good thing? And would they feel even the slightest obligation to inform the subject of their findings? I think there's room for a scenario where they might prefer people with certain flavors of autism to be "the man behind the button."

 

I have some issue with sensory overload, like my son.

So do I. I can't stand crowds, clubs, or anything like it. It's like a bright light that washes out all my thoughts and I can't even answer questions. I shut down. Thankfully these situations are usually avoidable.

I have problems that are classically ADHD and have had all my life. It's something that I am finally beginning to address in my old(er) age and it is not easy because it is wrapped up in my self image and feelings of self worth.

I know what you mean. I was diagnosed with ADD (not ADHD, not sure if that's still a distinction) as a kid and I never stopped having those problems. It's not something I like to talk about because there's a stigma about it. So many people (rightly, often enough) challenge the very existence of it and say "nobody likes doing things we don't like doing but we do them anyway, you just need to learn some self discipline." They think you're lazy and/or immature. Can't really hold it against them; they can't get it if they haven't experienced it. Trying to defend the position is a lost cause because there are so many people on the bandwagon that shouldn't be.

ADHD can be a double-edged sword. I can do things that few people I have met can do but I also can't do things that most people I have met can do. Things that people consider trivial and ordinary can be very hard for me while things other people consider extremely difficult are not.

This has to do with focus (oddly in both positive and negative ways), uninteresting activities (sometimes I simply can't do them, and what that means is almost impossible to communicate, I literally just can't) and also in having an excessively complicated mental life with many layers of heuristics and theories that effectively allow me to do things but appear obscure and inaccessible to most other people.

I have odd focus issues as well. Definitely can relate to being absolutely unable to focus on things that don't interest me, no need to go into that. But when I am interested in something that can be a problem too. I get too interested in it. I get obsessed, totally fixated on a thought or a project and can't think about anything else. I lay awake at night thinking about it until morning. It might last days or weeks, it lasts until I scratch that itch, get to the bottom of a thought exercise or finish that project, whatever it might be. It's exhausting. If I do manage to extricate myself from it, it's really hard to go back and resume a project I left unfinished.

 

As a prior holder of a TS-SCI clearance, I think I have at least some idea of the ringer you went through although it probably doesn't hold a candle to what you experienced for PRP. But there's a lot I don't remember about even my own experience, and a lot I don’t know (never knew) about it. Especially the differences between the way things were done in your day vs my day vs now, what specifically and completely they try to glean from their data, and what they choose to do with their findings. I know they try to predict if you're stupid enough to inadvertently divulge national secrets, or of sufficiently bad character to intentionally do it. But do/did they test for autism among the battery? And if they do/did, and if they found it, would they consider it a bad thing or a good thing? And would they feel even the slightest obligation to inform the subject of their findings? I think there's room for a scenario where they might prefer people with certain flavors of autism to be "the man behind the button."

Good points. You would hope a person selected for behind the button would be selected to be very emotionally stable under pressure. My personal experience with an autistic child seems to make detectable autism something to be avoided in that position.

 

Good points. You would hope a person selected for behind the button would be selected to be very emotionally stable under pressure. My personal experience with an autistic child seems to make detectable autism something to be avoided in that position.

It's frustrating that I/we have to keep discussing all these various conditions as if they were the same thing, all "autism." I am aware of autism that has a component of emotional instability but "that's not the autism I was talking about." I was talking about someone like my brother, who is the guy responsible for reinforcing the misconception that Autistic people don't experience emotion or have empathy. Or the obviously Autistic radioman I served with who memorized tech manuals word-for-word, and would probably follow an order to exit an aircraft without a parachute.

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-with-autism-can-read-emotions-feel-empathy1/

People with Autism Can Read Emotions, Feel Empathy
There is a fine line between autism and alexithymia—feeling emotions but being unable to identify them

My kid is very emotional at times, I still remember the first time he got his heart broke by girl in school.

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-with-autism-can-read-emotions-feel-empathy1/


My kid is very emotional at times, I still remember the first time he got his heart broke by girl in school.

My sister is very emotional but my brother is not. He doesn't talk about his feelings (ever) or show them outwardly (often). It wasn't until he was in his late 20's that he opened up to me about what goes on in his head, and turns out he had been thinking of suicide. I had no idea. (He's doing much better now)

 

https://www.spectrumnews.org/features/deep-dive/definition-autism-needs-refined/

Interesting read. How is it diagnosed? There are no blood markers. It is a bunvh of checkmarks. I would have been marked as autistic as a child now - antisocial, non verbal until fairly late in life etc.

Why in todays world are people looking for labels? From neurology perspective there is no normal (assuming no tumors etc)...everyone IS unique.

 

I believe it was Charles Eisenstein who wrote in his book "The Ascent of Humanity" that it was the turning point for human society when we began to put labels on things.

https://ascentofhumanity.com/text/chapter-2-03/

 

The APA (American Psychiatric Association) has a book full of diagnostic guidelines and indicators the same as the AMA (American Medical Association) for the diseases they treat. Remember that Psychiatrists are licensed MDs. Autism is a wide gamut of indicators from extremely mild to completely debilitating. Common first indicator is the child not speaking at the normal age children start speaking. Our son did not start speaking until at least age 3 and then not in full sentences. Fixation is another big indicator. Once they get onto something there is no dissuading or reasoning with them. Disliking crowds, loud sounds, bright lights, and such is another. While they may not score well on standard Intelligence Tests, they may have Savant like abilities in a niche. Our son is a functioning, low intelligence, verbal with speech impediment, and considered a disabled adult on the low end of the Asperger's Syndrome gamut. He was driving a parts delivery truck part time for one of the part's stores but now taking pictures of cars on a dealership lot for online sales but not full time so without benefits. He functions albeit disabled and lives at home with us. He collects a small amount of Social Security which my wife has to manage for him and due to his disability he has insurance coverage under our policy as a dependent child.

 

The APA (American Psychiatric Association) has a book full of diagnostic guidelines and indicators the same as the AMA (American Medical Association) for the diseases they treat. Remember that Psychiatrists are licensed MDs. Autism is a wide gamut of indicators from extremely mild to completely debilitating. Common first indicator is the child not speaking at the normal age children start speaking. Our son did not start speaking until at least age 3 and then not in full sentences. Fixation is another big indicator. Once they get onto something there is no dissuading or reasoning with them. Disliking crowds, loud sounds, bright lights, and such is another. While they may not score well on standard Intelligence Tests, they may have Savant like abilities in a niche. Our son is a functioning, low intelligence, verbal with speech impediment, and considered a disabled adult on the low end of the Asperger's Syndrome gamut. He was driving a parts delivery truck part time for one of the part's stores but now taking pictures of cars on a dealership lot for online sales but not full time so without benefits. He functions albeit disabled and lives at home with us. He collects a small amount of Social Security which my wife has to manage for him and due to his disability he has insurance coverage under our policy as a dependent child.

Thank you for sharing.

 

The APA (American Psychiatric Association) has a book full of diagnostic guidelines and indicators the same as the AMA (American Medical Association) for the diseases they treat. Remember that Psychiatrists are licensed MDs. Autism is a wide gamut of indicators from extremely mild to completely debilitating. Common first indicator is the child not speaking at the normal age children start speaking. Our son did not start speaking until at least age 3 and then not in full sentences. Fixation is another big indicator. Once they get onto something there is no dissuading or reasoning with them. Disliking crowds, loud sounds, bright lights, and such is another. While they may not score well on standard Intelligence Tests, they may have Savant like abilities in a niche. Our son is a functioning, low intelligence, verbal with speech impediment, and considered a disabled adult on the low end of the Asperger's Syndrome gamut. He was driving a parts delivery truck part time for one of the part's stores but now taking pictures of cars on a dealership lot for online sales but not full time so without benefits. He functions albeit disabled and lives at home with us. He collects a small amount of Social Security which my wife has to manage for him and due to his disability he has insurance coverage under our policy as a dependent child.

There becomes a problem when condition/disorder definition becomes a catchall. General public actually starts to focus on those cases where people are highly successful with few issues and there is a romanticising of the condition when truely difficult cases still have no support.

Where I live a mother killed herself and her teenage son who aged our of care a few years ago. He became physically too much for her too handle and she lost all hope as she ran out of resources for him. He was what I myself refer to as truly autistic. Meaning mostly non verbal, unpredictable violent outburst, incapable of living within society. It is something that has stuck with me

 

There comes a point, and a very hard life changing point, where the parent is not fully capable of providing the care a child needs. That is when the child must be handed over to the State for institutionalization. I've known those that tried to provide that care in-home, and it is not something that can be done in extreme cases of debilitating illness and extreme mental diminishment. In those extreme cases neither the child nor parent's needs are met. It is heartbreaking. Populations of the State institutions were significantly reduced in the 70's and a lot of people who were not capable of living independently were basically thrown out on the street. There is a very large percentage of "Homeless" people in that category. Institutional care is now only available for the very severe cases. I have one cousin who has been institutionalized now for ~65 years. Nonverbal, in diapers, but living in a small group cottage on the institution grounds. Until my uncle's death and Covid, my aunt and uncle would visit him monthly and he did recognize who they were.

 

How is it diagnosed? There are no blood markers. It is a bunvh of checkmarks.

There are genetic mutations which can be quantified but I think that is mostly academic at this point, and like you said most diagnoses are a bunch of check marks. This is problematic.

I would have been marked as autistic as a child now - antisocial, non verbal until fairly late in life etc.

Thanks for your story!

Why in todays world are people looking for labels? From neurology perspective there is no normal (assuming no tumors etc)...everyone IS unique.

I believe it was Charles Eisenstein who wrote in his book "The Ascent of Humanity" that it was the turning point for human society when we began to put labels on things.

https://ascentofhumanity.com/text/chapter-2-03/

Yes, everyone is unique. Some people are so unique that they can't lead a normal life and support themselves. Some are so unique that they can't even talk. But I'm sure that knowing they're disabled "just like everyone else" is help enough and they don't need to put a label on it.

We label literally everything, because labels are useful. I'm a bit baffled as to why that's being contested. Sorry @MrChips I didn't read very far into your link, it started to smell like faux intellectual drivel after a couple of paragraphs. Considering the dude's last name is Einstein I'm sure it shreds any argument I could hope to make but I'll try anyway.

What if the weather channel just announced each day that "weather" is coming? You don't know what that means. Is it a snow storm? A hurricane? A calm sunny day? The labels we put on the conditions tell us what to expect and how to prepare.

What if every component on a PCB was known simply as a component? And someone comes along and suggests we start calling the one that looks like a tiny trash can, a capacitor. Would we question why in today's society we seek to label components? Is the utility of it not obvious?

Should we go back to calling every kind of human ailment a fever? I'm sure it would do wonders for the precision of our medical care, getting rid of all those cumbersome labels that we unnecessarily and arbitrarily slapped all over a myriad of identical "diseases" that we probably just concocted for a sense of self purpose anyway.

If I seem irritated, it's because I can't believe in 2021 we apparently have a non-negligible portion of society unwilling to even recognize Autism as a real condition and seek to dismiss it as a mere "label." Pick some lower hanging fruit.

Look, I get it, it's too inclusive. They took some artistic liberty with the "the spectrum." There is an understandably low level of trust in the diagnosis because "a bunch of check marks" or whatever. This opened door for attention seekers to claim a label and for detractors to rip apart the meaning of the word. This sucks. This is why I've been suggesting more labels instead of the single word "autism" with "spectrum" tacked on as a catch-all. The word "autism" is like "weather" or "component" or "fever" in the above examples. It's way too generic. I realize that suggestion has its own set of challenges, but surely it's more reasonable than dismissing the whole thing as a fashion trend?

 

Unfortunately, Psychiatrists/Doctors get paid by ticking off the box on their claim form for the "Approved APA/AMA diagnostic treatment" from their associations book of recognized "diseases and their treatment". Of which book the insurance company evaluates the payment therefor. There is no "I don't know" box. There are some that get "overused" but are within the doctor's realm of CYA (he has to put down something good to get paid for his time).

 

There becomes a problem when condition/disorder definition becomes a catchall. General public actually starts to focus on those cases where people are highly successful with few issues and there is a romanticising of the condition when truely difficult cases still have no support.

Where I live a mother killed herself and her teenage son who aged our of care a few years ago. He became physically too much for her too handle and she lost all hope as she ran out of resources for him. He was what I myself refer to as truly autistic. Meaning mostly non verbal, unpredictable violent outburst, incapable of living within society. It is something that has stuck with me

It seems I misunderstood your earlier post. I think I understand this one better, and I agree with it.