adding another phone outlet in house?

Discussion in 'The Projects Forum' started by Mathematics!, Apr 1, 2009.

  1. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
    Ok I have fished the new telephone wire from the phone network interface box to the new phone outlet in my living room. The outlet is correctly rigged up, all I need to do now is connect the other end of the telephone wire to the customer side panel of the phone network interface gray box in my cellar.

    I just have a few last minute questions.
    First when I look in the customers side panel I see 3 blocks each block has 4 screw terminals ( yellow , green , black , red ) and a phone jack.

    I am using all the blocks already. But their are like 4 or more spaces to add additional blocks. My problem is where do I get these blocks and how do I install them.
    Hopefully I don't need the phone company to open up their side panel to install them?

    Since this new phone outlet is just to add an additional phone not to add another seperate line (i.e it is going to be on the same phone number )
    Can I instead of getting a new block installed just screw the wires to a used green and red terminal. Or can you not put 2 greens on the same terminal.

    Thanks for any help
  2. KL7AJ

    AAC Fanatic!

    Nov 4, 2008

    If they're all single line phones, you only need to wire the red and green wires.

    And you can just parallel your phones (up to around 5 units)

  3. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
    By parrallel do you mean I can just use an existing block and just have 2 green wires on one green screw and 2 red wires on one red screw?

    And by up to 5 do you mean you can put a max of 5 greens on one green screw. Why a max? Is it some code or is it just the max amount of wires that will fit on a screw?

    And is their any way to install another block on the customer side with out opening the phone company's side panel? (curious!)

    Thanks for your help.
    Just curious again what happens if you wanted 3 seprate phone lines (i.e 3 different numbers )
    You only have black yellow screws for a second line where does the third line go?
    Their is no terminals for a third or fourth ...etc line.
  4. Mike2545

    Senior Member

    Mar 26, 2009
    Yes just add green to green and red to red

    The old Ring type phones would max out the system at 5 about phones, so the rule of thumb is, 5 phones per line

    Each phone company probably has its own style of blocks, so getting one to fit might be difficult

    If you want more phone lines, call the phone company. They add more wires.
  5. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
    My thing is I don't know how to take one out or put one in ??
    Hopefully it does not require to open the phone company side panel because if that is the case then I would need them to install another one.

    Assuming I have an old one that went into this box at one time. How do I connect? It seems I need to get at the wires of the phone company side?
    It say's something like push the orange clips etc etc on the front of the block flap. But I don't want to break the existing ones by trying to see how they rigged it.

    Their are 6 slots for blocks on the customers panel but only 3 are being used. I would like to have all six in just for the hell of it.
    Because then I could have twice the phones and faxes lines ...etc

    But I would rather do as much of the installation as possible and leave the phone company out of it. So I can save some money.
    Unless they don't charge you for installing blocks?

    My other main question is if you had 2 fax machines and 1 phone line.
    Then where does the third line go? you only have black,yellow , green,red screw terminals? Does the phone company have to install a special block in the customers box?
  6. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
    As the people above stated, you can add more on to the same screw if you have a screw block. The Black and Yellow wires are for the 2nd phone line, and often not connected in older houses. While "on hook" Green is "tip", which is 0V/ground, and Red is "Ring", which is -48V. Most phones aren't picky about polarity, but computer modems and fax machines tend to be.

    The overall "Ringer Equivalent" and allowed drive is what the telco adjusts. Phones used to have an "RE Value" on them, since the phone company power had to drive the solenoid that rung the bell, in addition to powering the carbon microphones. After the 80's and the breakup of Ma Bell, a lot of that went away, but the limtis still are there to prevent people from using the phone line as a source of power.

    If you have several non-cordless phones that light up and have caller ID, without independent power such as batteries or a wall adapter, you may get a busy signal continually, or a call from the phone company eventually.

    Your current phone block, Does it have 4 rows of clips, with a jumper bar in the middle? If so, the left two and right two rows are connected with the jumper, you only need to find a blank pair and "punch down" the wires into the open spots. two small plastic probes work if you don't have a punchdown tool.

    --ETA: I found a site with some pictures:
  7. Mike2545

    Senior Member

    Mar 26, 2009
    Ok you can forget the phone company box if you want to add another extention.

    Just cut the wire and add a terminal block about 6" away from the phone company box. Wire the red, green, yellow, and black to a terminal then you have a splice point.
    From there you can run wires to your hearts content. If you need more than one line they can use the yellow and black wires to add the second line. For this reason always connect the 4 wires in the line.

    They have special splitters that plug into your phone jack that look like one line spits into two but it is wired red/green to one side and yellow/black to the other.

    If you need more lines than that, the phone company will add a drop to your house from the pole. Essentially adding another set of wires to the equation.

  8. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
    Ok , I got you just have a terminal block and run the phone wires to that then run 4 wires to one of the blocks on the customer panel. Then all you have to do is keep adding it to the terminal block.

    But since the terminal block can keep getting more and more stuff on it.
    Would the connection from the terminal block to the customers panel 4 screws ( red,green ,yellow,black ) be over loaded since the screws terminals of the customers panel can only hold a max of 5 wires. Indirectly it will be holding much more then that because it will have the load of the terminal block which can be unlimited.

    Is the max 5 not really a max any more and just for the old phone circuit design?

    Curious, say you have the 6 or 8 conductor wires instead of the 4 wire (red,green black,yellow ) in theory you could have
    6/2 = 3 or 8/2=4 different phone lines but the customer service panel only has the 4 red,green,black,yellow screws. So I don't know how you would go about having 3 or 4 seperate lines with only the 4 screw terminals of the customer service panel. I would think that the most you could utilize out of the 4 screws is 4/2 =2 seperate phone lines.

    And my curiousness is wondering how you or they would go about giving you the ablity to have 3 , 4 or more seperate phone lines?

    I don't think it would be practical for them every time a person wants a third line or fourth line for them to have to run new wires or dig new ditches...etc?

    Plus how could they do it for a business with 100's of people with 100's of different lines?
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2009
  9. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
    If you do not have a "66 Block" (fingers) or a "110 Block" (notches) inside your house, but want to add one, you can do that, but before moving the wires, call the phone company and let them know you will be straightening up the wires and installing a punch block, I'd recommend a "66 block" ($20) for 2 wire telco, and "110 block" ($60) for 4 pair network. Their responsibility typically stops at the box on the outside of your house. You own everything inside. When you talk to them, and they ask for the number of extensions, let them know the maximum number of phones that will be installed/running, counting temporary ones (not the total count of outlets, used an unused). The limits are all set by computer now, so its' just an extra field in your account. If you try to power all the "nite lites" in your house from telco lines, for example, you'll hear from them. For the most part, it isn't a concern unless they ask.

    With the 2 pair wire, they can set you up with 3 phone lines, as the "green wire" is the ground, the other 3 wires are the signal wires. This requires a different signalling from the telco, which they set up inside the "Telco Only" side of the grey box outside. It is then your responsibility to run 3 pair wire throughout your house. I've always run Cat5 cable (Ethernet, 4 pair) for everything, blue for telephone, orange for computer network in the house, both mine and friends building new shacks. At each jack, I have a 4/6 position natural colored jack for phone (on blue wire), and an orange jack for computer (Orange wire, runs to central patch panel). Even with wireless, the hardwired Ethernet gives several options for other services, such as speakers, remote control extenders, etc.

    Businesses that have many phone lines have several options:
    1) Small business, A T1 line ($600/month), which consists of "channels", each being essentially either an ISDN (Data line) or POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service). They can then partition the T1 to the number of phone lines they want, leaving the rest for data. The Telco will route their data connection (IP over partial T1) to the Internet for them for a fee, or through a different IP/Internet provider for a small fee, though you need to pay somebody for the bandwidth.

    2) Small/Medium Business: Similar to above, 1 T1 line, and 1 DS1 or DS3 ($1,000/month) line T1 and DS1 are essentially the same thing, kinda like T= "Telephone" and DS = "Data Service", both run on copper twisted pair. With a full T1 for POTS, they can either have the Telco route their numbers with the assistance of a small "in house partial PBX", or have a local full PBX (Private Branch eXchange) aka "Digital Phones". Lately, more have gotten only a DS3 line, and run all VoIP (Voice over IP) phones, either with a local VoIP PBX, or the telco routing phone numbers and voice-mail to the IP Address of the phones. IP Addresses and IP Service are still provided by the Telco or another ISP Provider. The PBX handles extensions, voice-mail, hold music, etc. Many businesses of this type will get a few POTS lines as well, both for Fax machines, and to recoup some of their phone bill by selling dialup Internet service, although this is less common with the emergence of widely available broadband. All must maintain at least one POTS line for 911 service.

    3) Large Business (Dell, Citibank, etc). From a single office or several locations, a T1 or T3 of POTS lines for multiple fax machines and tele-commuters for dial in access. An OC-48 to OC-192 (Optical Carrier, 5Mbit-1Gigabit, $20,000/month-$100,000+/month, depending on deals made with others, see below) Line, OC Lines are available from 3 Mbit to Gigabit). A PBX System larger than most found in small towns, able to route multiple prefixes for tens of thousands of extensions. Multiple sites are usually linked directly to each other via OC-xxx data lines, over which "local/in-house" telephone calls are routed, saving long distance costs. These sites are also connected to the Internet As The "ISP", and usually have contracts with other high level and mid level ISPs, making up a backup portion the "Internet Backbone".

    VoIP Phones are becoming extremely popular in large #2 and in #3 size installations, due to only the need of Ethernet and power runs to each desk- usually 2-4 cat6, 2 power, 1 independent power, wire is cheap when building, but not when retrofitting. Troubleshooting tools are drastically cut down to only MAC/Wire level and IP Network analyzers & tools, compared to the proprietary digital testing tools required for troubleshooting an AT&T Digital PBX system.

    Sorry you asked? I apologize for the novel... The prices for optical lines are about 3 years old, but shouldn't be too far off.
  10. Wendy


    Mar 24, 2008
    I have FOIS (Fiber Optic), I get TV, Internet, and Phone for $110/mo.
  11. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
    No that was a great help thanks.

    So if I was going to have more then the 5 max indirectly.
    All I would have to do is just let the phone company know and they can make it so the 5 max is higher by fixing it on their end. (hopeful they won't have to come out to do it or charge me a new fee)

    My parents have VOIP from charter they have the internet/phone/TV package deal 3 in 1.

    What I am try to figure out is whenever they get more messages then the answering machine can record. It goes to some charter answering machine and I would like to know how you can retrive those messages.

    Is their like a special number to call or is their a specific site I could sign into to check these messages?

    How is FOIS ? I believe since it is fiber optic it should be the fasts, your in the faster frequency range (i.e visible light range).

    I didn't think they fully put in fiber optic lines in all the local loops yet?
    Maybe you can only get this with certain regions or with certain Providers?

    But anyway how is the quality is their any more interference in audio or video then the standard coaxial 75 ohm. Also do you get a fixed bandwith like DSL (adsl , xdsl , ...etc) or is it shared like cable?

    Because the $110 amount is what my parents are paying for the 3 in 1 charter package.