220 volt single phase run and start 6.5hp motor won't start

LesJones

Joined Jan 8, 2017
3,903
I don't understand this phrase "the other black why can't comes from the winding and goes to the start capacitor" Can you clarify this ? Also what is the "white ill to wire" ? Can you post wider angle versions of both pictures so I can see where the wiires go and where the capacitors are mounted. I was assuning that the brown and yellow wires went through the casing to the run capacitor but now I suspect that you may mean that the connector on the end of the yellow wire connected to the run capacitor and that the end of the brown wire may also have a push on connector that connects to the other connection on the run capacitor. I will want resistance reading but I first need to see where all the wires go. Also HOW WAS IT WIRED TO START WITH ?

Les.
 

Thread Starter

Tomstr

Joined Jun 20, 2017
28
Sorry about the typo I didn't re read the post... there is one black wire goes to the start capactor coming from the windings assuming from the start windings, the other black wire comes from the stationary switch on the terminal labeled H ...contacts and goes to the start capactor also... the white L2 black is L1..I miss spoke earlier theas wires are from the pressure switch.. power wire...yellow and brown go to the run capactor...IMG_0208.JPG
 

LesJones

Joined Jan 8, 2017
3,903
Can you do the following tests with the wires disconnected from the capacitors. (And not touching anything else.)
1 First with your meter set to a low ohms range touch the meter leads together and note the reading. This is so we know the resistance of the test leads.
2 Measure the resistance between the violet wire that comes from the windings to the thermal cutout switch to the blue wire.
3 Measure the resistance between the violet wire that comes from the windings to the thermal cutout switch to the black wire that comes from the windings.
4 Measure the resistance between the black wire that comes from the windings and the brown wire.
5 Measure the resistance between the yellow wire and each of the other 4 wires that come from the windings.
6 Measure the resistance between the the connections on the thermal cutout switch.
7 With the teminal block mounted back in position measure the resistance between terminals L1 and H.
8 Manually operate the centrifugal switch and take the readings in step 7 again.

9 Do a rough test of the capacitors as follows. First short out the terminals on the capacitors to make sure that they are discharged. With your meter set to a higher ohms range (Say 200K) measure the resistance across each of the capacotors. Expect to see a low reading at first rising to a high reading after several seconds.

I have made the following assumption as I still cannot follow the wires on your pictures. One violet wire connects terminal L2 to one sde of the thermal cutout. The other viiolet wire goes from the thermal cutout to the windings. Is this assumption correct ?

From the windings it looks like this is a two pole motor. I would have expected a lower speed motor to be used on a compressor. Can you post a picture of the information plate on the motor.

Les.
 

Thread Starter

Tomstr

Joined Jun 20, 2017
28
Yes you are correct about the thermo cutout! The purple comes from the windings to the cutout then L2.. in the morning I will ohm all wires you are asking about!!! Thanks for helping... I paid a lot for the compressor..and hopefully not needing a motor!!
 

LesJones

Joined Jan 8, 2017
3,903
The 200 ohm range should be OK for testing the wires to the windings and switch contacts. 200K for testing the capacitors.

By the way which country are you in to give us some idea about your mains supply ?
Les.
 

Thread Starter

Tomstr

Joined Jun 20, 2017
28
The 200 ohm range should be OK for testing the wires to the windings and switch contacts. 200K for testing the capacitors.

By the way which country are you in to give us some idea about your mains supply ?
Les.
Purple to blue-00.5 ohm
Purple to blue going through thermo cutout-00.6
Black wire coming from windings through purple 10.4
Black wire from windings to brown00.6
Yellow to brown 09.3
Yellow and black 09.3
Purple to yellow-1.5
Yellow to blue-1.5
L1 to H switch-00.6 (switch applied )IMG_0248.JPGIMG_0246.JPG IMG_0246.JPGIMG_0245.JPG IMG_0244.JPG
 

LesJones

Joined Jan 8, 2017
3,903
Hi Max,
I had a suspicion that this may be the case from the first post. (The wording is somewhat confusing.). I suspect he may be trying to power it from 0 to 120 rather than the anti phase 120's

Les.
 

LesJones

Joined Jan 8, 2017
3,903
This is as far as I can get to understanding how the motor is wired.


GE_Motor2.jpg



I was expecting the yellow wire to be connected to the blue wire at the connections to the windings. As the resistance between the yellow and blue is 1.5 ohms this is not the case. The only explanation I can think of is that there is a third winding on the motor. I have never seen a single phase capacitor start/run motor with a third winding. The motor does not look like it has been modified od overheated so I think it should work. In post #1 you seem to say that you only have 110 volts at the motor terminals instead of the expected 200 volts. Are you sure that you have connected it correctly to the mains supply ? I think you should remove the belt between the motor and compessor until you have got the motor to run off load.

Les.
 

Thread Starter

Tomstr

Joined Jun 20, 2017
28
When I turn on the power at the pressure switch the motor doesn't get to 220V it's like the voltage is cut off when I turn the power off at the pressure switch I only get one 110v on each leg if I remove the purple wire coming from the the thermal switch I get no arc at the pressure switch dead!!
When it does this I'm thinking that I have the run or start wires mixed up
 

Thread Starter

Tomstr

Joined Jun 20, 2017
28
When I first got the compressor it was dead it wouldn't do anything it would not spark at the pressure switch then I ran out and bought a pressure switch and a run and start capacitor still no spark!! I remove the thermal switch then I got an arc at the pressure switch! but still the motor won't start that's what it did when I first got it....I wasn't sure if the start and run capacitor was wired properly I thought somebody went in there and Messed with the wires
 

Thread Starter

Tomstr

Joined Jun 20, 2017
28
It's almost like when the thermal switch is in the wiring loop wired in with the other wires it kills everything when you remove the thermal switch it still won't start my question is this Will that motor start without that thermal switch if it can I have a bad motor if they cannot I need thermal switch
 

LesJones

Joined Jan 8, 2017
3,903
Although you did not test the thermal cutout switch as requested in test 6 (Post #23) you effectively did so in the first two measurments of post #30. The difference between these measurments was 0.1 ohm so that is the resistance between the connections on the thermal cutout. The thermal cutout is not required for the motor to work. Just unplug the two purple wires from the thermal cutout and connect the ends of the wires together. Do not leave the thermal cutout disconnected as it is designed to remove power to the motor if it gets too hot.When you say that you only get 110 volts on each leg was that with reference to earth ? You should be measuring the voltage BETWEEN the two legs. Did you manage to check that the centrifugal switch works correctly ? Pulling wires of and seeing if it produes an arc is a correctly dangerous way to check for current flow.

Les.
 

Thread Starter

Tomstr

Joined Jun 20, 2017
28
Yes I did test the stationary switch that goes on the back of the motor apparently works it's getting zero0.6 ohm when it's off he gets nothing also what I'm talking about a small Ark at the pressure switch.. I had another compressor before when I would turn it on I would always see a small arc when I didn't see that arc on this compressor I knew something was wrong so you're saying titles two wires together and plug that into that same spot for the thermal switch on the terminal
 

LesJones

Joined Jan 8, 2017
3,903
An alternative to shorting the two purple wires removed from the thermal switch together is to connect the purple wire from the windings directly to terminal L2.

Les.
 

LesJones

Joined Jan 8, 2017
3,903
Work back from the output side of the pressure switch. Check the voltage between the output legs of the pressure switch.
Check the voltage between the input legs of the pressure switch.Continue back towards the mains supply until you get 220 volts. You will then have a good idea where the fault is.

Les.
 
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