RF EMI/RFI from EV's

Thread Starter

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,312
https://dnyuz.com/2022/12/10/in-a-future-filled-with-electric-cars-am-radio-may-be-left-behind/
Carmakers say that electric vehicles generate more electromagnetic interference than gas-powered cars, which can disrupt the reception of AM signals and cause static, noise and a high-frequency hum. (FM signals are more resistant to such interference.)

“Rather than frustrate customers with inferior reception and noise, the decision was made to leave it off vehicles that feature eDrive technology,” BMW said in a statement, referring to the system that powers its electric vehicles.

Tesla, Audi, Porsche and Volvo have also removed AM radio from their electric vehicles, as has Volkswagen from its electric S.U.V., ID.4, according to the carmakers and the National Association of Broadcasters. Ford said that the 2023 F-150 Lightning, its popular electric pickup truck, would also drop AM radio.
This likely will also affect SW, HAM and most amplitude sensitive transmission methods.
 

Ian0

Joined Aug 7, 2020
9,844
How will I be able to listen to the cricket on 198kHz long wave?
At the moment, the first signal to disappear is DAB.

A while ago Peugeot seemed to have a lot of trouble with the electronics in their petrol and diesel cars being upset my interference. Perhaps you shouldn’t tailgate a Tesla if you’re driving a Peugeot!
 

Janis59

Joined Aug 21, 2017
1,849
SMPS of course radiates the higher harmonics up to 30++ and even more high. Thus in radio meaning the crucial factor is filter on SMPS input. I would more concern not about radio as "most important vehicle driving force component" but about high current wires going just beyond the place where driver backbone is losing its favor name. Because Health normatives are not written by idiots or green appologetes but with experience what magnetic fields are medicinally permissible. Thus, the ICNIRP-2022 new norms MUST be observed and how to comply with when amperage in wire is probably thousands of Amps - that is still riddle for me. However one is known for sure, when soviets invented their Diesel locomotives, using hanged on Diesel engine plus the powerful generator and all commuting of each-wheel power motors (3... 30 MW!!) went just beyound the drivers seat - then somehow unexplainable suicide count between train drivers became about 50x higher suicide risk and about 10x higher cancer risk.
 
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BobTPH

Joined Jun 5, 2013
8,998
This likely will also affect SW, HAM and most amplitude sensitive transmission methods.
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Wouldn’t the interference be pretty much confined to the interior of the car? I would think a car looks a lot like a faraday cage at those frequencies.
 

Thread Starter

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,312
This likely will also affect SW, HAM and most amplitude sensitive transmission methods.
Wouldn’t the interference be pretty much confined to the interior of the car? I would think a car looks a lot like a faraday cage at those frequencies.
[/QUOTE]

Think about alternator whine and spark noise. The total generated signal power (radiation and induction) from a defect can easily exceed the EM suppression shielding effects in an old school solid metal tank ICE car. Newer EV cars will likely have less conductive structural members to save weight with lots of non-conductive material creating spaces and cracks.
 

BobTPH

Joined Jun 5, 2013
8,998
Wouldn’t the interference be pretty much confined to the interior of the car? I would think a car looks a lot like a faraday cage at those frequencies.
Think about alternator whine and spark noise. The total generated signal power (radiation and induction) from a defect can easily exceed the EM suppression shielding effects in an old school solid metal tank ICE car. Newer EV cars will likely have less conductive structural members to save weight with lots of non-conductive material creating spaces and cracks.
[/QUOTE]
Good point.
 

ronsimpson

Joined Oct 7, 2019
3,045
50x higher suicide risk and about 10x higher cancer risk.
As long as we are on conspiracy theories, the point of EVs is not fuel savings but to make radio noise that only effects AM radios. This is done by Liberals to silence the AM talk radio shows. Note the Liberal FM radio will work just fine.
 

Janis59

Joined Aug 21, 2017
1,849
RE:""As long as we are on conspiracy theories,""
The conspiracy theories in 260+ World States Normative Regulative Acts base???
What do You smoke? I want too! :)
Generally speaking, I may become convinced with no ease that all governments are doing SOME small things wrong. Or rather easy that SOME (rare) governments are doing many things awful wrong (as russia, Iran and N-Korea for example). But to believe that ALL governments are misundertanding thousand-fold overstepped unneeded exposition by fields, medically proven as harmful and accepted in normative regulatory values - it sounds me most probably the ghost created by above mentioned smoke not reality.

No dispute that SMALL irradiation with EM waves is harmless. No dispute that exists some doses so high that man just burns and fall dead on the place. Thus no any wonder that exists some average high doses what are harmful but not creates an immediate death. And most authoritative international organization giving a full costless data what are those normative values is ICNIRP with it`s documents ICNIRP-97, ICNIRP-2010, ISNIRP-2022. Yet indeed exists some places believing those normative must be 10-50 fold stricter (Austria, Sweden etc) but most of lands over Planet trusts ICNIRP, and personally I cannot see ANY conspiracy in their science. Just throw the laziness aside and read it 1500 page sci explanation about how they got their values.
 
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Janis59

Joined Aug 21, 2017
1,849
RE:""the point of EVs is not fuel savings but""
May dispute on this as well.

1) Havent ever heard would be de-masked as lie-ful the written (this means it ought be true) that one EV producing environmental impact equal to one Volvo-760 production impact PLUS exploitation impact up to 2 million kilometers (including spent fuel impact). Under impact there was seen the CO2 plumes and other atmosphere polluting gases output in full cycle view. Surplus to this, its well known that each EV contains a CHILD-SLAVE (of third World States) lives, average one life in each EV, lost at lithyum hand processing schemes. Only what is sure, someone have well earned on that deaths.

2) When car is produced, above mentioned Volvo is cruising with 5.5-6 liters per 100 km consumption thus having 36-38% full cycle energy efficiency factor.

3) The produced EV is NOT spending 100% factor because: 1)the ALL electricity generation power up to date iare already up-taken. No free large power available in the network. Thus, unavoidable, must build the numerous NEW electro-stations. All rivers are up-taken. Peaceful Nucleus is condemned in many lands, Europe including. Solar and Wind farms are giving the current when it is NOT needed but are not giving it when it IS needed (the night-time for recharge). Thus, the only exit is to erect the massive coal plants.... Very "green" alternative??

4) T=Okay, will burn the chosen fuel, hope one know what is the best available fuel to electricity conversation rate? After Riga TEC-2 made few years ago an upgrade to most advanced machinery available on Planet now they have 56% of efficiency. Before it had 36%. Okay, now we need to convert the electricity to high voltage and provide until megalopolis. Average Latvenergo high voltage distribution network year by year declares the system loss factor 30-33%. Thus the provided energy is about 70%. Now one must plug in the recharger. No doubt overall exists some rare designs having efficacy better than 90% but most have about 85%. Yet even battery charge-discharge process have own efficacy what is hardly UNDER 80%.

Now make a small calc, how much is =0.56*0.79*0.85*0.8 ?? Probably You got the 30%. Its not any mistake in calc. Its a sad truth - THE EV in exploitation is SPENDING MUCH MORE environmental resources (in meaning of CO2 as well the energy) into comparison with modern Diesel car and making SIGNIFICANTLY MORE BAD Global Warming Impact than above mentioned car.

5) But as the Volkswagen fan I cannot regret that Volkswagen stopped it Passat line with Diesel engines what like mine consume about 4 liters per 100 km., Thus making that World most prominent Environment-savvy machine is condemned but World`s most prominent anti-Environmental machine is praised as Green Dream. What is this, if not a World-level conspiracy, dear friend!

6) Ah, ya. Fresh data about funy thing, the State Naphta Reserves. Any land hove them storing somewhere for day X needs. My tiny Latvia have tiny reserves. Its calced that IF to substitute these diesel reserves energy be kept in EV batteries form, THE WHOLE WORLD lithium battery production plants (all all all) must work 8 years until such hypothetical storehouse is filled. But there is one problem. After 10 years of staying those batteries become eldened, degraded, thus must be made a new. When after 8 years they will arrive, after 2 years them must be shifted again, and again, and again. All the condolence with You Americans, to substitute Your State Reserves the whole World battery producers must spend the 2300 years. Yet after 10 years whilst those 2290 years havent yet gone, You must have a NEW batteries.... Probably Martian in-habitation plan would be more practical for such aim, huh?
 
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Janis59

Joined Aug 21, 2017
1,849
RE: ""My old farm truck has spark-plugs and a rotary distributor. You can hear it coming down the road.""
Sure. BUT the radiofrequencies fields are disipating rather fast, are well acranated by car steelplates and drives generally straightlined. Into disonance, SMPS made very low frequencies fields (aka 20 kHz up to 200 kHz) are very difficult to ecranate, well winkling around the any sharp corner, and dissipates very slowly. However isnt know how much them are able to make any wide-range problems (probably not), but having car after car many thousands on each of city main street kilometer, when each have 50 kW aka 1000 Amperes from what about 1/3 is EM "waste" (just apply a Furier to meander! to realize this), I am prone to believe that it crowd potentially MAY create an EM smog problem for something.
 

Janis59

Joined Aug 21, 2017
1,849
The total generated signal power (radiation and induction) from a defect can easily exceed the EM suppression shielding effects in an old school solid metal tank ICE car.
Believe the EV mostly will come with magnetic field as noisy impact, and electrostatical RF noise will be the sharp minority of total impact. And magnetic field, ouch, that is kind of s** very difficult to ecranate. Extreme difficult and expensive to beat down. Only the keyword usable for such is Mu-metal.
 
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