Hello,

I apologize in advance that I'm not very circuit-savvy, but I'm hoping someone here might be able to help me with a roadblock I've encountered in a pet project.

I'm designing an artificial window for a basement bedroom in my house. At 7 AM each day, LED lights behind the faux window will gradually dim up to full brightness, and stay on for a few hours. The window will have a sheen treatment over it to disperse the light and disguise the fact that there is nothing more than a concrete wall behind the curtain.

I've attached an amateurish sketch of my set-up, which consists of the following components:

1: LightenUp Model 212
When plugged into an outlet, this dimmer begins gradually dimming up the lights to full brightness over the course of 30 minutes.
http://windhovermfg.com/

2: HitLights 150 Watt Dimmable Magnetic LED Driver
To allow the LEDs to be dimmed very low without flickering.
https://www.amazon.com/HitLights-Dimmable-Driver-Magnetic-Transformer/dp/B00BU5UI2E

3: Ustellar Dimmable LED Strip Lights
https://www.amazon.com/Ustellar-Dimmable-Waterproof-Daylight-Lighting/dp/B078S1M78G

As may be expected, in my sketch, the black line is hot, white is neutral, and the green is the ground.

The set-up almost works perfectly. When powered, the lights dim up very evenly over the course of 30 minutes. However, when the 30-minute mark (full brightness) has been reached, something clicks and the lights turn off. A few seconds later, they turn on, but immediately click off again. This cycle repeats itself indefinitely. It is worth mentioning that the LightenUp component is not advertised as working with LEDs, but given that the actual dimming seems to be working fine, I'm not sure that this is the issue.

I would greatly appreciate any advice, preferably in laymen's terms. Thanks in advance!

 

The set-up almost works perfectly. When powered, the lights dim up very evenly over the course of 30 minutes. However, when the 30-minute mark (full brightness) has been reached, something clicks and the lights turn off. A few seconds later, they turn on, but immediately click off again. This cycle repeats itself indefinitely.

hi 212,
I suspect the power supply is going going into a thermal shut down due to over heating, as it cools the shut down resets and the cycle repeats.
As a test, reduce the number of LED's strings being powered, this should lighten the load on the power supply.
E.

 

Hi E,

Thanks for the reply; really appreciate your time.

To test your theory, I cut the LED strip down to just 3 lights, but unfortunately the problem persisted. They still dimmed up over the course of 30 minutes (although a little less evenly than before). But as soon as they reached the 30-minute mark, they started clicking on-and-off. I've uploaded a video of the odd behavior, in case it might offer some insight:

Just a thought: the schematic for the LED driver (attached below) shows the neutral traveling straight from the power source to the driver, whereas mine travels through the dimmer. Given that my particular dimmer is itself powered, I assumed I'd need to wire it this way. Could this possibly have anything to do with it?

 

hi 212,
Looking at the circuit image you have posted, could you edit the drawing to show how you have the Neutral connected.?
E

BTW:
Have you seen this clip from the lighten up datasheet you posted?

More about Bulbs
Some LEDs are dimmable, not all. Each manufacturer uses a slightly different electronic design. Unfortunately, most blink or flash. We like LEDs but we can't recommend any of them for use with Lighten Up! at this time.

 

have you considered using a dc-dc step-down voltage regulator with an Arduino:

This will give you so much control/flexibility and cost a fraction.

Here is a video of the DIY LED panel:

You could also control the temperature by using two step-downs on two temperature LEDs:

 

I don't have any brilliant ideas that would explain what you're seeing, but I do have a suggestion for diagnosing it: divide and conquer!

Try hooking a regular incandescent bulb up to the dimmer and see if it works properly. Also try running the dimmable LED driver / LED combo powered according to their schematic (no dimmer.)

If either of those misbehaves on its own, then you're that much closer to identifying your problem. If they both work fine on their own, and only malfunction when used together, that will be trickier to figure out.

 

I think if you ditch the "HitLights 150 Watt Dimmable Magnetic LED Driver" and use a stepdown transformer, bridge and cap between the "LightenUp Model 212" and the LED strip it might just work.

There is another way, but that might be a taboo subject on this site.

 

hi 212,
Looking at the circuit image you have posted, could you edit the drawing to show how you have the Neutral connected.?
E

BTW:
Have you seen this clip from the lighten up datasheet you posted?

More about Bulbs
Some LEDs are dimmable, not all. Each manufacturer uses a slightly different electronic design. Unfortunately, most blink or flash. We like LEDs but we can't recommend any of them for use with Lighten Up! at this time.

Hi E,

Good idea. I've attached an image showing two wiring configurations, the latter of which I tried this evening. Sadly, both yielded the same result.

Regarding the LightenUp LED disclaimer, yeah I'd seen that, but I also saw a ton of people who said they use it with dimmable LEDs with no issue. But moreover, I find it odd that the failure occurs only after the lights have reached full brightness. I would have assumed that once full brightness is reached, the dimmer becomes just a passive component in the circuit.

have you considered using a dc-dc step-down voltage regulator with an Arduino:

This will give you so much control/flexibility and cost a fraction.

Here is a video of the DIY LED panel:

You could also control the temperature by using two step-downs on two temperature LEDs:

I had thought about the possibility of doing something with Arduino, but was put off by the learning curve, as I've never worked with it before. But I watched the videos and honestly, this looks far more robust than what I have. Plus, I wouldn't mind being able to return the $100 LED driver. If all else fails, I think I'll bite the bullet and try to reproduce the assembly shown in the video. Thanks for the share!

I don't have any brilliant ideas that would explain what you're seeing, but I do have a suggestion for diagnosing it: divide and conquer!

Try hooking a regular incandescent bulb up to the dimmer and see if it works properly. Also try running the dimmable LED driver / LED combo powered according to their schematic (no dimmer.)

If either of those misbehaves on its own, then you're that much closer to identifying your problem. If they both work fine on their own, and only malfunction when used together, that will be trickier to figure out.

I'm a big fan of the "divide and conquer" strategy. So, to your recommendations:
1) Incandescent bulb with dimmer works
2) LED driver and LED strip lights (no dimmer) work beautifully

So I suppose that leaves me in the "that will be trickier to figure out" camp?

I think if you ditch the "HitLights 150 Watt Dimmable Magnetic LED Driver" and use a stepdown transformer, bridge and cap between the "LightenUp Model 212" and the LED strip it might just work.

There is another way, but that might be a taboo subject on this site.

This sounds like it'd be fantastic, and I certainly wouldn't complain about being able to return the driver. But unfortunately, this may be a bit above my level of competence... at least until I've had the chance to spend a few good hours Googling those components. If you have any further insight/explanation, that'd be great, but otherwise you've given me a great place to start researching. Much appreciated!

 

I'm a big fan of the "divide and conquer" strategy. So, to your recommendations:
1) Incandescent bulb with dimmer works
2) LED driver and LED strip lights (no dimmer) work beautifully

So I suppose that leaves me in the "that will be trickier to figure out" camp?

Well, shoot. Sorry that wasn't more helpful.

I'm really intrigued by this situation. If I were there in person I'd want to use an oscilloscope on the power between the dimmer output and LED driver module input. I have a couple vague notions of things that might be in play, relating to phase angle switching, minimum holding current etc, but I have no idea how I'd identify them with any certainty. I'm guessing that with a scope things would become clear... but it might not be obvious even then. Very intriguing, but beyond my expertise to diagnose from afar.

Regarding the Arduino suggestion, the Arduino environment is pretty fun and accessible. There are many on these forums that dislike the Arduino world because you can do lots of projects without ever really learning the fundamentals of electronics that you should be learning. I definitely see their point. Personally I love Arduinos and think they can be great stepping stone into deeper learning. You get out of it what you put into it. It's probably not worth learning how to work with Arduinos or other microcontrollers just for this one project, but if you think you might be interested in more projects in the future, I highly recommend giving it a try.

 

Well, shoot. Sorry that wasn't more helpful.

I'm really intrigued by this situation. If I were there in person I'd want to use an oscilloscope on the power between the dimmer output and LED driver module input. I have a couple vague notions of things that might be in play, relating to phase angle switching, minimum holding current etc, but I have no idea how I'd identify them with any certainty. I'm guessing that with a scope things would become clear... but it might not be obvious even then. Very intriguing, but beyond my expertise to diagnose from afar.

Regarding the Arduino suggestion, the Arduino environment is pretty fun and accessible. There are many on these forums that dislike the Arduino world because you can do lots of projects without ever really learning the fundamentals of electronics that you should be learning. I definitely see their point. Personally I love Arduinos and think they can be great stepping stone into deeper learning. You get out of it what you put into it. It's probably not worth learning how to work with Arduinos or other microcontrollers just for this one project, but if you think you might be interested in more projects in the future, I highly recommend giving it a try.

I definitely understand what you are saying about the Arduino offering little more than a superficial understanding of the core concepts of electronics. Nonetheless, it may be a pragmatic solution to my predicament. Plus, it wouldn't be a bad skill for me to have going forward, given that I'm sure this won't be the last silly project that I concoct and pursue.

 

hi 212,
Looked at your marked up images, its OK either way for the Neutral.

What is plan 'B' in using the Arduino.
Do you intend building your own LED panel brightness controller using an Arduino.?
E

 

hi 212,
Looked at your marked up images, its OK either way for the Neutral.

What is plan 'B' in using the Arduino.
Do you intend building your own LED panel brightness controller using an Arduino.?
E

It looks like that might be my best option, given that I can't seem to find a way to get my current set-up to work. A quick Google search turns up a few tutorials for similar projects. It might take some time, but I'm sure I could figure it out eventually.

 

hi 212,
When you get some ideas on paper, post them and we can check them out.
E

 

hi 212,
When you get some ideas on paper, post them and we can check them out.
E

Will do. Very much appreciated!