Instigator, lol!

 

Mods please close this thread! It is OU in disguise.

Whenever someone mentions a diy generator build using neo magnets, its pretty much guranteed to be one of these free energy believers.

I am aware of this whole free energy fad that's going on, but I am not going to believe the hype myself. I just want to get some answers, and if you cannot provide them, then please don't provoke people to look at my post negatively. There is nothing wrong with asking questions, thank you.

 

Why? Gearing speed up is very inefficient mechanically, and you have multiple stages (multiple gear sets).

How would you suggest getting the rotors to spin? I'm aware that there would be a lot of friction...would it be more efficient to have the bottom rotor spin faster? When I used to tinker with motors as a kid, I remember that certain motor were extremely hard to turn by hand while others were effortless. Is it the gears? Would it be more efficient to get the rotors to spin simultaneously, via the power from the solar motor?

My main objective here, is to find out whether my machine could work hypothetically... thanks for responding!


Sheesh, I didn't know people were so harsh when it comes to certain topics...

 

"Lubricated Magnets" is the giveaway.

Oh, please indulge me. How is it that lubricated magnets are the give away? Do you lube your magnets? I am just trying to get some answers, please don't chime in with insignificant commentary. Thank You.

 

My main question is whether I will encounter significant resistance from the magnets as they rotate over the coils.

Yes you will. If the coils have ferromagnetic cores then there will be 'cogging' resistance due to the magnet/core attraction. And if you try to draw current from the coils a counter-torque will be generated.

I remember that certain motor were extremely hard to turn by hand while others were effortless. Is it the gears?

Yes. Gears allow rotation rate to be traded for torque. If you gear up a first shaft so that it rotates twice as fast as a second shaft then it will only have half the torque (even less, allowing for efficiency losss due to friction) of the second shaft.

 

I'm having a hard time figuring out the WHY of this. I've re-read the original post a couple times and I'm still not sure I picture it correctly. Is the idea: A stacked series of 7 pairs of stacked disc rotors, each pair having a stator between them, and the each pair geared up in rpm from the previous?

What is this configuration supposed to accomplish? The emf developed in a coil is proportional to the speed of the magnet passing by it, so most of the available power will be available at the fastest turning rotor pair. Except that the mechanical transmission losses already mentioned will negate that effect. You could wind the coils for each stator differently to extract different voltage/current profiles, but I don't see what that would accomplish. And all the pairs will be out of phase with each other, making this a 7 phase generator?

Also, magnetism is a little like electricity in that it needs a low-resistance return path for the field lines, to maximize the flux. I don't see any allowance for that in the current design. That's a problem common to many DIY PM generators and is not unique to this design.

 

I'm having a hard time figuring out the WHY of this. I've re-read the original post a couple times and I'm still not sure I picture it correctly. Is the idea: A stacked series of 7 pairs of stacked disc rotors, each pair having a stator between them, and the each pair geared up in rpm from the previous?

Yes it is, for the most part.

What is this configuration supposed to accomplish? The emf developed in a coil is proportional to the speed of the magnet passing by it, so most of the available power will be available at the fastest turning rotor pair. Except that the mechanical transmission losses already mentioned will negate that effect. You could wind the coils for each stator differently to extract different voltage/current profiles, but I don't see what that would accomplish. And all the pairs will be out of phase with each other, making this a 7 phase generator?

Also, magnetism is a little like electricity in that it needs a low-resistance return path for the field lines, to maximize the flux. I don't see any allowance for that in the current design. That's a problem common to many DIY PM generators and is not unique to this design.

Thank You for posting!

I remember reading that if the distance between the rotors increase, it will not only lower the voltage output, but also the amount of resistance encountered.
Is it possible, if I were to draw a voltage greater than is necessary, that by placing the rotors a greater distance from the rotors to compensate for the resistance, it would allow the machine to operate more efficiently? I'm sure that the amount of energy produced drops significantly as the space is widened, but in theory is it possible?

And to answer your question about the arrangement of the rotor assemblies...The top rotor IS the main source of power, and the rotors below it, are only there to provide extra weight during the initial start up...any "surplus" energy from their rotation, could probably be reintroduced to the solar motor by some kind of rechargeable battery setup, when the light source has dwindled considerably (sunset).

Lastly, would it make sense, if I were to only have weighted discs(sacrificing additional energy), as opposed to additional rotors, that I could put the machine into motion, without having the added friction of the additional magnet/coil attraction?

Or suppose I was to alter the arrangement. And instead of each rotor making a full rotation...that they function sort of like the flywheel on a watch, and the solar motor (now a servo) has a spring that will turn the bottom rotor (now a weighted disc). As the bottom rotor turns, each successive rotor (also weighted discs) will follow it, attached by springs to each successive rotor, in essence creating a back and forth helical motion. Would that account for the additional friction, or is it ludicrous to even suggest it?

It might sound heinous to even propose this idea, but I'm just trying to think of a way it could work.

Again, this is only speculation and I have no sufficient prior knowledge of this type of undertaking, that would suggest an educated basis for my inquiry.

Thank You for posting!

 

Thank You for replying so fast, I really appreciate it!!! I am only looking to learn something new, and this forum has helped me in a big way so far.

 

You may be picturing these arrangements in your mind, but I need a picture. Words just don't do it. You are describing a very complicated (to me, without a diagram) machine.

And I'll ask again, what is the goal of the machine? What does it accomplish? As already noted, you'd get more electricity out of your PV panel if you bypass any machine.

 

How would you suggest getting the rotors to spin? I'm aware that there would be a lot of friction...
...

Good design generators have high efficiency, that means the largest transfer of shaft power to electrical output power.

Having gears always robs power and reduces efficiency. Having multiple stages of gears is worse. Gearing up is worse than gearing down.

To make the generator work really nice it would be good to remove all gears, and optimise the size and magnetic construction of a single rotor to suit the RPM it operates at.

...
Is it the gears? Would it be more efficient to get the rotors to spin simultaneously, via the power from the solar motor?
...

Yes. And a single rotor (or a stack of rotors spinning at the same speed on the same shaft) would work best.

There's no "free lunch" in generator design, and adding complications like gear sets and spring mechanisms etc only makes it worse, compared to a well designed generator optimised for that particular RPM.