would this be a good hydrogren generator?

Discussion in 'The Projects Forum' started by stanman11, Mar 6, 2012.

  1. stanman11

    Thread Starter Member

    Nov 23, 2010
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    You get the basic concept of electrolysis and hydrogen right?
    I'm trying to make a cell for a car to help with gas mileage.
    Do you think this side by side cell will work?

    Basicly the small block of 21 plates goes inside the ;arge black of 21,
    making 42 plates



    Small inner plates
    [​IMG]


    Lager outer
    [​IMG]

    finished will look somewhat like this
    [​IMG]
     
  2. t06afre

    AAC Fanatic!

    May 11, 2009
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    You get the basic concept of electrolysis and hydrogen right? In order to produce hydrogen you need energy. And in your case in form of electric current. And in a car this current must come from an generator driven by the engine. So far so good. Even when aided with turbochargers and stock efficiency aids, most engines retain an average efficiency of about 18%-20%. And your way of producing hydrogen is neither/ far from 100% efficiency. So how can you ever think your energy accounting will give you positive numbers. You will for sure get lower milage. And waste a lot of money. What you are doing is based on a scam. Created by scammers that want to take your money. By selling worthless equipment and plans.
     
  3. Georacer

    Moderator

    Nov 25, 2009
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    If you want to pursue electrolysis for your own reasons, you are free to ask for advice.

    But remember that any car modification is restricted in AAC.
    Also heed t06afre's words. This subject has been discussed many times here in AAC and the conclusion was always the same.
     
  4. stanman11

    Thread Starter Member

    Nov 23, 2010
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    4
    So I shouldnt try?
     
  5. Georacer

    Moderator

    Nov 25, 2009
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    If you are trying to electrolyze the water while the car is running, you essentially add another energy conversion unit within the car closed system. This, by definition, isn't going to improve energy efficiency.

    So, the answer, given the above, is no.
     
  6. bundick

    Active Member

    Dec 19, 2007
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    1
    If you try it, a good test platform is a must.

    Get an older Inline Six powered car to use for a daily driver.
    Make a good spread sheet to log the fuel usage and performance.
    Make your "generator" and start logging the differences.

    To make this work you might have to make a "Carb" that will feed the H2 accurately to the engine, as well as the gas/fuel mix at a predictable and usable rate.

    To illustrate why you need the Carb, get your propane torch in hand, get the engine going, feed some Propane into the Intake.
    Anything you add to that intake will distort the engine performance.

    This 'mix' problem is gonna be tough to beat. If you make that work, be sure to find some way to capitalize on it.
     
  7. t06afre

    AAC Fanatic!

    May 11, 2009
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    One of most most important law in physics. Is somewhat simplified. You can not take some amount of energy, and use that to create a bigger amount of energy. In your car all the energy need to come from the fuel. Also the energy needed to electrolysis of water. Take a look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-fuelled_car
    But as said before, there are a lot of conmen. That are more than willing to sell you something that may in some magic way work. But it never works. If this principal had worked it would have been in some variants. In every car. And the holder of such patent would have been stinking rich. But this is not the case in any way ;)
    So if your plan is to cut cost. Drop it, the faster the better
     
  8. stanman11

    Thread Starter Member

    Nov 23, 2010
    230
    4
    I was going to make a carb. but not now.
    but the way you guys talk maybe I should build a bigger generator and channel it through a 120v rectifier.?
     
  9. t06afre

    AAC Fanatic!

    May 11, 2009
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    NO, NO, and once more NO!! What you are planing to do will not work. What ever you do your energy accounting will show BIG red numbers. And the same goes for your wallet. If you want to save money. Get a car with a smaller engine. Or try to drive more economical.
     
  10. wayneh

    Expert

    Sep 9, 2010
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    The only way any of this makes ANY sense is if we're talking about regenerative capture of braking energy. So your hydrolysis device draws kinetic energy out of your moving vehicle, braking it. It makes some sense to not waste all your kinetic energy - that you paid for - by heating up brake pads and rotors.

    As pointed out, this makes NO sense if you're source of energy is your engine. Most of what you draw off the engine will be wasted, and will just add to your fuel consumption.

    A modern hybrid sends the electricity generated from braking to a battery, for later use in accelerating. I'll guess that the end-to-end efficiency is about 50% delivered to the wheels, compared to what was generated. Your plan to make hydrogen is doomed to a FAR lower efficiency. Are you planning to burn the hydrogen, or use a fuel cell to send it back to electricity, ie. to use it as a battery?

    In addition to being a dubious topic because it's automotive, generating hydrogen in relevant quantities to power a car is not the safest activity either. Could be VERY dangerous without careful engineering for safety.
     
  11. stanman11

    Thread Starter Member

    Nov 23, 2010
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    yeah ok i wont invert to dc to ac then back to dc. you guys talked me outa it.

    although its just a small scale hobby project.
     
  12. THE_RB

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 11, 2008
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    Don't be put off doing hobby experiments with hydrogen, it can be rewarding and has lots of uses including some excellent gas-welding properties and also for energy storage from solar energy systems etc.

    Generally good electrolysis cells need vertical plates to allow bubbles to rise off the plates.

    Please make sure to read up on safety issues, as the hydrogen oxygen gas you generate is explosive and is often around high current electrics (which can spark etc!). :eek:
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2012
  13. t06afre

    AAC Fanatic!

    May 11, 2009
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    I can agree on that. It is nothing wrong in doing experiment with basic concept of electrolysis and hydrogen. What everybody have pointed out in a polite way. Is that your better mileage project is doomed, even before it reached the drawing board. I REALLY hope you can trust us on that Stanman11.
     
  14. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
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    There is another common name used for this, HHO. As long as you aren't to get fuel from water you will be OK, but overunity is not an open topic here. That is where you create energy from nothing, AKA perpetual motion.

    I agree hydrogen has a lot of uses. If I knew as a kid what I know now I would have been a danger to us all. It tends to burn up engine cylinders from what I hear though. Many times the milage increase has a price, your good engine. If you are a shade tree machanic who is not afraid to swap engines have fun.

    As has been mentioned, automotive mods are also a taboo subject here, there are lots of other sites that fit that niche. Using hydrogen to power a car is also taboo at AAC, and will result in thread closure.

    Discussing electrolysis by itself is an open topic, and since we have (hopefully) progressed beyond using it for a car the thread can continue.

    What electrolyte are you using?

    If you want to reseach some other names on the subject, google Brown's Gas. It is an explosive mixture of H2 and O2, though it can be used safely with care. Be prepared for some of the most outlandish claims (out and out lies) you will ever see. It is a scammers paradise, where overunity claims abound.

    When I was a kid I wondered if I could have two tanks, each with a gas outlet, connected by a hose. I never made it because I didn't know what to use as an electrolyte.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2012
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