why no automotive?

Discussion in 'Feedback and Suggestions' started by RD400G, Apr 30, 2013.

  1. RD400G

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 30, 2013
    2
    0
    Hi,

    I read the ToS but I can't find mention of why automotive projects are not allowed. I'm just curious as to why.

    Thank you.
     
  2. Georacer

    Moderator

    Nov 25, 2009
    5,142
    1,266
    It's not explained and it's not meant to be.

    Basically, it is the combination of our concern for our member's safety, since cars are one of the top causes of injuries and deaths, and the site owners wanting to protect themselves against lawsuits from angry members.

    This has been set after long and timely debates.
     
  3. t06afre

    AAC Fanatic!

    May 11, 2009
    5,939
    1,222
    The site owners has deiced that rule. A said it probably as protective measure. The bottom line is very simplified. Those who come to this site asking for help regarding automotive questions. Are those who should not do such work. And those who know what they are are doing and are qualified will in most cases not need to come here asking for help. The site owners do not care what you do with your car. But they want you not to seek help doing that at this little corner of the net.
     
  4. Rbeckett

    Member

    Sep 3, 2010
    205
    32
    Simple reply is because Autos are engineered to ballance the electrical system and tinkering with the lights and circuits can damage the vehicle and make it non compliant to FMVSS safety requirements. This site does not want the liability of causing an injury or accident as well as potentially damaging a vehicle. If your not qualified to make repairs and mods I would not do it. I am a master tech and I do not modify or work on previously modified vehicles. Not worth the hassle and greif they always bring. Just sayin...
    Wheelchair Bob
     
  5. JoeJester

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 26, 2005
    3,373
    1,159
    Pick a project. Research the applicable laws (federal, state, local) that could have an impact on your project. Then add the research for every country in the world, just in case you post your project on a world wide resource and someone less skilled than you decides to undertake it.

    I'm sure ASE certified master mechanics love working on modified vehicles. The labor estimate must account for a whole lot of money before attempting to restore the vehicle back to OEM specifications. I'd quadruple all the pricing for that type of estimate and proudly present that to the customer ... who would promptly refuse the service and leave.
     
  6. Rbeckett

    Member

    Sep 3, 2010
    205
    32
    I just quit working on what we refer to as Hoopdie cars. If they are smart enough to change what the original engineer decided it needed, they are smart enough to fix it themselves. I used to agree to work on Hoopdies, but after a few less than stellar outcomes I made it a policy to just plain refuse unless they wanted to return the vehicle to original configuration. When I restore one to OE, it is Time and Material, no estimate. Never had the opportunity to restore many.....and didnt miss it one bit or the money. Being a Master teaches you when to say NO, and it hasnt failed me yet (35+ years)
    Bob
     
  7. russian

    Member

    Sep 1, 2012
    55
    1
    I know my opinion would not make a difference, but you are forgetting that not all cars are used on public roads. Have you even passed a truck towing something weird on a trailer? That's because there are thousands of responsible racers who keep their racing on a track.

    While race cars are still cars, they have nothing to do with FMVSS or DOT. There are grass roots racing series where people do a lot of cool stuff - there are cars with rotary plane engines, there are up-side down cars. A lot of smart people are playing with cars.

    Circuits are nothing but a tool - you can probably harm yourself and even others if you grab enough AAA batteries. A loose wire on a bicycle odometer can cause injury or death, but somehow a bicycle odometer is OK but anything automotive is not. I think this is not a perfect policy.
     
  8. MrChips

    Moderator

    Oct 2, 2009
    12,446
    3,362
    Don't bother to argue about it. It wouldn't stick.

    Discussion of automotive modifications is prohibited on AAC.

    End of argument.
     
    russian and DerStrom8 like this.
  9. russian

    Member

    Sep 1, 2012
    55
    1
    PS: can someone please clarify the boundaries of 'automotive' for me:

    Would a project aimed at converting a snow blower engine to electronic fuel injection be considered 'automotive'? I hope it would not, but I do not want to look unrespectful by posting a snow blower ECU project.
     
  10. tshuck

    Well-Known Member

    Oct 18, 2012
    3,531
    675
    While, yes, a number of people might be able to modify a car, a large portion of those asking don't know how to do it, or do it well (so it won't fail due to a small oversight). They risk not just themselves, but others should a modification prove to be poorly implemented.

    You also need to factor in risk to your assessment. While, yes, you could kill yourself using a few batteries, a car traveling at high speeds could do a lot more damage. If a battery explodes, the risk is relatively low as compared to a car exploding.
     
  11. russian

    Member

    Sep 1, 2012
    55
    1
    Hopefully the snow blower we are really working on would do the trick and I would not need to invoke the motorcycle or experimental aviation arguments :)
     
  12. russian

    Member

    Sep 1, 2012
    55
    1
  13. tshuck

    Well-Known Member

    Oct 18, 2012
    3,531
    675
    The moderators user their best judgment in what does, and does not, violate that rule. I would wager that a snow blower would be tolerated, but that's ultimately their call...
     
  14. tshuck

    Well-Known Member

    Oct 18, 2012
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  15. russian

    Member

    Sep 1, 2012
    55
    1
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
  16. tshuck

    Well-Known Member

    Oct 18, 2012
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  17. russian

    Member

    Sep 1, 2012
    55
    1
    Most of the clearly automotive ones. None of the marine or motorcycle :)
     
  18. Georacer

    Moderator

    Nov 25, 2009
    5,142
    1,266
    These are poor examples, because of the age of the treads. The rules on automotive modifications are a couple of years old. Previous to that, some modifications where allowed, but now there's a blanked ban.

    Currently, we allow automotive repairs, and all things off road. We also allow discussions on 12V lighter plug projects, as they are not part of the vehicle.

    However, since things are not black and white and lines are gray, we reserve the right to make judgment calls on dubious cases. Generally, the more honest you are about your project, the more we are willing to talk about it, if it is within bounds.
     
    russian likes this.
  19. russian

    Member

    Sep 1, 2012
    55
    1
    In my case, in light of Clean Air Act my project is targeted strictly for off road engines, as clearly indicated in the license agreement: http://sourceforge.net/p/rusefi/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/firmware/license.txt

    Here is a typical application: http://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=426

    And here is the closed topic - http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=93493

    What do you think?
     
  20. #12

    Expert

    Nov 30, 2010
    16,304
    6,814
    Let me tell you one. Woman goes to work, uses the wheelchair lift to get her wheelchair out of the trunk, slams the lid on a wire and the car burns down.

    This wasn't even a modification of the original wiring. It was a new circuit run right from the battery by alleged wheelchair lift installers. It did not have a fuse or circuit breaker on the circuit and the wires were not properly routed and armored.

    Let me say that again: Not a modification, Installed by "professionals", and the car burned to the ground.

    Now, how professional would expect them to be if they had to come here and ask what size wire and how to install it?

    We don't do it here. Don't ask. Don't argue. Don't search out old threads and try to use them to argue. There are other sites that do that kind of thing. This one doesn't. End of discussion.
     
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