Yup. America lives in fear. The terrorists have won beyond their wildest dreams. They wanted to terrorize Americans but I do not think they imagined they could be so successful. Americans are spending billions and billions chasing shadows. They have made it so uncomfortable to travel that

http://www.newsweek.com/id/70991
The United States is the only major country in the world to which travel has declined amid a tourist boom.
. . .
The pound is worth $2, a 47 percent increase in six years. And yet, between 2000 and 2006, the number of Britons visiting America declined by 11 percent. In that same period British travel to India went up 102 percent, to New Zealand 106 percent, to Turkey 82 percent and to the Caribbean 31 percent. If you're wondering why, read the polls or any travelogue on a British Web site. They are filled with horror stories about the inconvenience and indignity of traveling to America.

The USA went from first tourist destination down to third. Business travel to the USA has plummeted. Business conventions are being taken elsewhere as foreign executives do not care about being harassed and humiliated by $7.50/hr employees of the "Homeland Security".

This used to be the siege mentality in the old USSR and the bureaucracy sunk them. America is sinking itself with the same mentality and its enemies are loving it.

 

Firstly, I agree fully with the action of the moderators here.. The chance that any data provided here would actually be used for detonation of a weapon is probably miniscule.. But the chance that such data would be taken as promotion of terrorist activities by security 'watchdogs' is not so small - and I think there is a slight, but real chance that if such data was allowed, those moderating this site could get bothered. In the UK, parlament is looking to increase the length that persons can be detained without trial - paranoia is justified these days! - not so much because terrorists are everywhere - more because terrorism is being used as an excuse to erode basic personal rights and freedoms - The right to fair trial, and the requirement for there to be REAL reason behind the detention of anyone.

When it comes to the question "Who is the enemy?" this answer, as it always has been, is "that depends on who you are". Perhaps a better question is "Who is the aggressor" -

Who created al-kiaeda? The USA did.. and armed them, for the purpose of committing terrorism against the USSR.

Who 'houses' the largest terrorist operation on the planet? - responsible for supplying weapons and training to terrorist cells all over the world, for decades.. South Africa, Angola, South America, The middle east.. ALL countries where terrorism has been funded, aided, trained and supplied by this one super terrorist organisation, the CIA.

Who supplied Sadam / Iraq with the only WMD they have ever posessed? The suppliers target was Iran ..

For that matter, who put Sadam in power? - Sadam got to power directly through assistance of the CIA.

Who is the enemy? If you believe that a country / the people should be able to determine their own path / destiny, be able to choose something different from Western 'democracy', and be free from tyrany imposed by a foreign nation, then the USA is certainly one of your enemies.

Having said all the above.. Where would the world be today without the USA's role? There will always be bullies in the playground - and sometimes the USA has acted as a 'prefect' and done the 'right' thing.. We had an era where there were 2 'super bullies / super prefects' and things were in a messy 'balance' - Now there is only one, and that one is throwing out the 'prefects rule book' - Openly allowing and advocating disregard for law and standards which held some check over activities - standards like conventions on detention and use of torture.

We need (at least one, preferably more) policemen - but we only have one super bully.

 

Who is the enemy? If you believe that a country / the people should be able to determine their own path / destiny, be able to choose something different from Western 'democracy', and be free from tyrany imposed by a foreign nation, then the USA is certainly one of your enemies.

Well said! It happens in most countries. Only the US government thinks that the government and the people of the target country are the same. The reality is far from that idealism. There is no "axis of evil" or whatever they are refering to.

In my opinion, the USA are the invaders. Democracy should be conquered from within (and that sooner or later happens). Moreover, these wars are not about democracy or freedom. They are about capital, money, oil!

 

Moreover, these wars are not about democracy or freedom. They are about capital, money, oil!

They are about capital, money, oil, power, pride, and religeon.. and a lot of other things.. but they are certainly not about justice, freedom, or democracy.

After the collapse of the cold war things were not going the way the neo-con / religeous elements wanted.. sure, the USA had 'won' .. "Capitalism is now the only game being played".. but there was not the same justification for huge military expenditure, no clear 'enemy' and therefore no easy means to tap into 'patriotism' and 'nationalism' as the classic means of controlling (their own) people.. No way to impose their view of what being "American" meant on the population.. This left the field open for all sorts of "un American" activities .. All sorts of attitudes and behaviour they did not like - liberalism - were increasing.

9/11 was extremely fortunate for them.. A little too fortunate! It is extremely interesting that only a couple of years before 9/11 the statement "What America needs is another Pearl Harbour" was made by (I think it was) Rumsfelt.. And interesting that on 9/11 ALL the methods of defence normally in place (Fast response military aircraft etc) had effectively been disabled (on excercises etc) by the main 3 neo-cons in the white house.

The war in Vietnam was started based on a fabricated attack on an American ship..

The American Right has a LONG history of LIES and DECEPTION and FABRICATION to con the American people (and the world).. I believe that this time they (those in charge on 9/11) effectively murdered Americans in order to give an excuse for starting wars and murdering whoever they chose.

 

The American Right has a LONG history of LIES and DECEPTION and FABRICATION to con the American people (and the world).. I believe that this time they (those in charge on 9/11) effectively murdered Americans in order to give an excuse for starting wars and murdering whoever they chose.

Including 9/11, which I believe that was an inside job,

I wonder where are the references to "pentalawn". Perhaps censored!? I guess next will be "pentanium"!?

 

but there was not the same justification for huge military expenditure, no clear 'enemy' and therefore no easy means to tap into 'patriotism' and 'nationalism' as the classic means of controlling (their own) people..

Actually, we Americans do not respond nearly so well to calls for patriotism and nationalism as we do to pocketbook issues. We are dollar-chasers, not blind idealists. Even the most liberal among us are motivated far more by health-care or welfare than by patriotism and nationalism.

 

Actually, we Americans do not respond nearly so well to calls for patriotism and nationalism as we do to pocketbook issues. We are dollar-chasers, not blind idealists. Even the most liberal among us are motivated far more by health-care or welfare than by patriotism and nationalism.

And lets face it.. there are big profits from war.. whether one 'wins' or 'loses'.. So perhaps I was wrong - perhaps you are right, and the motivator is not patriotism or nationalism, it is greed.. That is as bad, if not worse!!

America made its biggest fortunes as the result of WW2 - Whilst Europe was devistated, The USA got rich.. In order to recover to any semblance of normality and reconstruct our nations, we had to come 'cap in hand' to the USA for loans.. Loans we only paid off a few years ago!

I dont want to be anti-American.. I feel bad whenever I tar everyone in a country with the same brush.. Britains involvement in supporting the USA makes us guilty of gross crimes against humanity, and I hate the fact that, by being British, I am likewise "tarred".. But no European has any reason to trust the USA.. EVERYTHING the USA has done has been based PURELY on its self interest (or at least, what its rulers deem to be its self interest).

I believe this mistrust has been 'dormant' - but that recent actions by the USA have woken these feelings .. I, for one, would far prefer the UK to align itself strongly with Europe and take an unambiguous stand against the USA on issues of bullying.. I think our "Special Relationship" is a con, the Bush-Blair affection was nauseating, and it is time for the UK to accept what it is - a small European country, not any kind of superpower... Within Europe we can be part of a small superpower.

 

Ah, Fred, big profits for whom? Not everybody gets to stuff huge sums in his pocket every time a war is declared. Or did I miss everybody in G.B. becoming wealthy when Mrs. Thatcher declared war on Argentina?

Possibly, you might look at past history. There just aren't any European countries that haven't willingly participated in something morally indefensible at one time or another.

I have a book that castigates England for causing unnecessary misery in WWII because of the bombing campaign. Well, there's not much doubt that "Bomber" Harris was a bit unwilling to see what was going on, but winning the war got in the way of doing it in a perfectly moral and considerate way.

Keep in mind, too, that the US has never denied any follower of Islam freedom of religion. Doesn't seem to be a reciprocal feeling with many in the Middle East or on Indonesia.

 

I feel bad whenever I tar everyone in a country with the same brush..

Thank you!! I much prefer a nice clean brush when I'm to be tarred!

Anti-American sentiment has been prevalent in many nations for many decades. So much so it even riled up a Canadian or two back in the 70's. In the 40's the Japanese got so pissed at us they launched an attack. And in the last quarter of the 18th century, Fat King George didn't even want us to exist as a separate nation!

In light of the above, I'm sure we'll be excused for ignoring some of the negative commentary.

And lets face it.. there are big profits from war.. whether one 'wins' or 'loses'

America made its biggest fortunes as the result of WW2 - Whilst Europe was devistated, The USA got rich

I interpret this as self-contradiction. Have I misunderstood your intent?

I assure you the US economic situation has not improved over the last decade.

 

1.) FACT: America made (a lot) more money from WW2 than it spent.. Europe, on the other hand, was left bancrupt.
My error in the "whether one 'wins' or 'loses'" was that I did not specify that the war needs to be conducted in a foreign land for this to be true.
.. No - Everyone in GB did not get rich as a result of the Falklands.. But a lot of people got extremely rich from it..
Here, too, perhaps I got my facts wrong.. Perhaps war does not increase a nations wealth (unless they 'win').. But perhaps it facilitates the transfer of money from the taxpayer to those who are allready wealthy.

2.) MORALITY: beenthere: "Possibly, you might look at past history. There just aren't any European countries that haven't willingly participated in something morally indefensible at one time or another." ABSOLUTELY TRUE!
.. Which is why the SAFETY MEASURES which were put into place after WW2 should NEVER be revoked or ignored.. ALAS, THIS HAS NOW HAPPENED.

3.) beenthere: "Keep in mind, too, that the US has never denied any follower of Islam freedom of religion. Doesn't seem to be a reciprocal feeling with many in the Middle East or on Indonesia."
What has this got to do with anything? - Are you saying that, regardless who / what caused 9/11, the USA has the right to invade any country where (Christian) freedom of religeon is prevented ?
I do not understand what relevance your inclusion of this "Fact" has to the topic.
Also, I think that raising this issue is the kind of ploy designed to tap into anti-Muslim feeling.
How many "Christians" have recently been tortured and killed by Muslims?
How many Muslims have recently been tortured and killed by (American) "Christians"?

 

Including 9/11, which I believe that was an inside job

Ok, you get the obligatory:

 

in reply to OP.

Can we not say the Taliban is the enemy.they are doing the same things which are being done in in Iraq and we know they are not fighting for a righteous cause.The cause of terror attacks in Iraq are dubious.
(in any case Mr Beenthere never said the Iraqi's are the enemy...there was an ambiguity in the sentence and we can give him the benefit of doubt here and for a soldier in any case the soldier on the other side is an enemy no matter how good his intentions are.)

btw : I always felt that locking those threads information from which can be misused here was the best thing to do.

 

Ok, you get the obligatory:

No, it is not a conspiracy and I don't wear an aluminum foil hat either. Why a big insurance premium was raised two weeks after the incident? And what about the explosions on unaffected floors? I saw buildings that did not collapsed after a fire in 6 floors. And concrete ones, which is worse. There was one in Mexico that had a fire that affected 25 floors and demolished the topest 5 of them. And what about a perfect implosion?

And why building 7 collapsed after taking minor fires and exterior damage? Were those buildings weak or of poor quality?

Just to compare. Only weeks ago there was a gas explosion inside a building in Setubal, Portugal. It damaged three floors, with severe structural damage. The shock wave shattered windows and doors along the square and was strongly felt at a radius of 500 meters (there are video recordings of people being projected inside a shopping center). Go here:
http://sic.sapo.pt/online/noticias/ingles/Setubal+building+stabilisation.htm
See the missing pillars? And the twin towers had a far more resistant structure than that. So, even with a larger scale incident, it would not fall to the ground.

Believe me! At the beginning of that I though that 9/11 was a terrorist act indeed. But then I saw the missile going against the pentagon and all that...

 

Believe me! At the beginning of that I though that 9/11 was a terrorist act indeed. But then I saw the missile going against the pentagon and all that...

I will offer you my rebuttal my esteemed friend:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons

 

I will offer you my rebuttal my esteemed friend:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons

So should I believe in what this guy says, or on the footages? A guy that puts as a title "There is no 9/11 conspiracy you morons.", disrespecting readers. A guy that is probably a teenager and hasn't a minimum of education or good sense. He is only right about the one dollar note, that really is conspiracy garbage and has nothing to do with "Loose Change". I know how to distinguish garbage from factual.

Tell my one thing. Were the cable spools in front of the pentagon made of pentanium? Was the lawn in front of the pentagon the so called pentalawn? I don't think so! (of course "pentanium" and "pentalawn" are just jokes)
And perhaps the plane's wings disappeared moments before the crash, because all I could see was a round hole on the pentagon, much different from the ones seen on the twin towers, after crashes with real planes!

 

I got a first question
Dont know if any of this is true but have heard that

During and after 9-11 all planes were grounded and no darn thing was let fly except one flght from the U.S. of A to saudi, and this flight had the Binladen family on it

is this tale true?
if it is true what dores it meen - i mean what sense can one make of it? does saudi control american airspace?

 

So should I believe in what this guy says, or on the footages? A guy that puts as a title "There is no 9/11 conspiracy you morons.", disrespecting readers. A guy that is probably a teenager and hasn't a minimum of education or good sense. He is only right about the one dollar note, that really is conspiracy garbage and has nothing to do with "Loose Change". I know how to distinguish garbage from factual.

Maddox knows all. He wrote book after all. It is called "The Alphabet of Manliness."

Seriously, it was the pictures on the webpage that are funny which sums up the conspiracy theory.

 

I got a first question
Dont know if any of this is true but have heard that

During and after 9-11 all planes were grounded and no darn thing was let fly except one flght from the U.S. of A to saudi, and this flight had the Binladen family on it

is this tale true?
if it is true what dores it meen - i mean what sense can one make of it? does saudi control american airspace?

Doesn't seem true to me!

 

Maddox knows all. He wrote book after all. It is called "The Alphabet of Manliness."

He wrote a book. But does it make him important or an authority on the subject?

 

http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html


http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html


http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm


Enjoy.