Hello,

Here is a list of cad-like programs.
http://www.educypedia.be/electronics/easoftsim.htm

There are other types of software also.
Electronics related software: Audio loudspeaker design Circuit simulation & design Digital-PICs Measurement Audio software Digital General Radio frequency
Greetings,
Bertus

Many thanks Bertus will be looking into the CAD programs suggested. Thanks also for the other links.

 

You must define your requirements.

Once the list of programs meet your requirements, then you consider the future requirements.

If you require circuit simulations, that should eliminate those that just do schematic capture.

You need to make your list. Keep in mind, as your experience grows ... and it will ... you don't want to be purchasing a new program (defeating your learning curve for the program) every year.

Most of the demo's have a limitation, typically it's the node size. TINA-TI has some limitations compared to the commercial versions of TINA. I have the educational development version of TINA. I started with Electronics Workbench and when they shifted to Multisim ... I tried that and didn't like it. That's when I moved to TINA.

Thanks Joe, I would say that initially drawing, capturing schematics and circuit simulation would be the basic but as you said in future one might require other options. My main problem seems to be that I'm finding it hard to understand these programs. Also I don't know how one can add components to the program's database.

 

Also I don't know how one can add components to the program's database.

Each program handles that differently.

Most .lib files are plain ascii text files. I usually grab the manufacture's spice file and incorporate it into the .lib file. There's more to it than that, but each software manufacturer handles it a little differently.

That is why you download the demo's and check them out.

I've communicated with the support people at TINA many times. Especially when a circuit doesn't behave as I think it should ... not that I'm always correct. The last one was pretty obvious, with the current in one LED much higher than it should be, or a zener that wasn't performing anywhere near the rated value. With the various operating systems out there, it's easy to understand some errors.

Pick a circuit. Analyze it. Breadboard it. Download the various programs and compare the simulations with your analysis and breadboarded results. What is your acceptable error? Lots of decisions for you to ponder.

 

Each program handles that differently.

Most .lib files are plain ascii text files. I usually grab the manufacture's spice file and incorporate it into the .lib file. There's more to it than that, but each software manufacturer handles it a little differently.

That is why you download the demo's and check them out.

I've communicated with the support people at TINA many times. Especially when a circuit doesn't behave as I think it should ... not that I'm always correct. The last one was pretty obvious, with the current in one LED much higher than it should be, or a zener that wasn't performing anywhere near the rated value. With the various operating systems out there, it's easy to understand some errors.

Pick a circuit. Analyze it. Breadboard it. Download the various programs and compare the simulations with your analysis and breadboarded results. What is your acceptable error? Lots of decisions for you to ponder.

Thanks Joe,

So all manufacture's have there own spice files and how do you find the spice file on the manufacture's site? If I understood correctly the spice file may not function properly with all schematic programs. What do you do then?

This is harder then I thought. I'm only an amateur with very little knowledge about electronics therefore I'm not able to decide if a component or circuit is performing as it should or decide on an acceptable error. As you said lots of decisions, unfortunately decisions I'm not able to make.

I thought that a simulation program would help me to see how a circuit works and if it works but I'm learning that there is much more to it then that. Most probably more than I can handle.

 

It is a difficult process indeed - choosing the right tool.
Many years ago I used Tango schematic and PCB, I thought it was a great tool, if you could afford it. It was however easy to learn.
I've also done my fair share of work drawings on programs such as turbocad and autocad, but libraries are limited, and you might end up sitting with a vernier taking measurements of components a lot.
A few years ago I had to do some work for a guy, he used protel 99. He gave me a quick run-down on it, but I must say, quite a lot of fiddling required to get it to behave like how you want to.
Regarding simulation software, I've worked with EW, back in the days of version 4.1, I thought it was great, as long as your circuit was not too complex. It was real easy as well, but would not help you with pcb's.
Another easy way to get past a component not in the library of some drawing app. you are using, is to take a component very similar to yours, and edit it to be exactly what you want, then save it as the correct component. Most schematic and pcb layout apps. allow you to do that.
I've found here in SA, a lot of people standardised on Protel, and that is important, especially if your design might be manufactured it large numbers one day, it just eases the process a bit, especially at pcb manufacturing level. Less confusion when explaining something to someone over a phone for example.
Hope you can get through trying all those apps, I will want to know what you say about the various models out there and your final verdict.
It may come in handy for a lot of people.
Good luck

 

I'm using ExpressPCB to design raw schematics and then design PCBs. The software is free, easy to use and their PCB fabrication service is efficient and very high quality.

However, if you later choose to use a different manufacturer, the software doesn't seem to use a standard file format (eg Gerber) At least I couldn't find an option to do this - if anyone knows what I'm doing wrong please tell me!

As John Luciani said in http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=13078 this vendor lock-in makes things difficult if you ever want to change manufacturers, or even just to share information with other hobbyists.

I am looking to change to something like FreePCB which is open source and outputs Gerber-compatible data. I'll let you know how my learning progresses!

 

It is a difficult process indeed - choosing the right tool.
Many years ago I used Tango schematic and PCB, I thought it was a great tool, if you could afford it. It was however easy to learn.
I've also done my fair share of work drawings on programs such as turbocad and autocad, but libraries are limited, and you might end up sitting with a vernier taking measurements of components a lot.
A few years ago I had to do some work for a guy, he used protel 99. He gave me a quick run-down on it, but I must say, quite a lot of fiddling required to get it to behave like how you want to.
Regarding simulation software, I've worked with EW, back in the days of version 4.1, I thought it was great, as long as your circuit was not too complex. It was real easy as well, but would not help you with pcb's.
Another easy way to get past a component not in the library of some drawing app. you are using, is to take a component very similar to yours, and edit it to be exactly what you want, then save it as the correct component. Most schematic and pcb layout apps. allow you to do that.
I've found here in SA, a lot of people standardised on Protel, and that is important, especially if your design might be manufactured it large numbers one day, it just eases the process a bit, especially at pcb manufacturing level. Less confusion when explaining something to someone over a phone for example.
Hope you can get through trying all those apps, I will want to know what you say about the various models out there and your final verdict.
It may come in handy for a lot of people.
Good luck

Many thanks for your views and comments. It’s very hard to go through so many applications and time consuming too. You can see what I have already said about some of the applications in the above posts. Mind you I’m no expert in fact I’m more of a novice amateur and it’s only my personal opinion. Furthermore time is something I’m always short of.

Currently I would say TINA-TI would be my best option.

 

I'm using ExpressPCB to design raw schematics and then design PCBs. The software is free, easy to use and their PCB fabrication service is efficient and very high quality.

However, if you later choose to use a different manufacturer, the software doesn't seem to use a standard file format (eg Gerber) At least I couldn't find an option to do this - if anyone knows what I'm doing wrong please tell me!

As John Luciani said in http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=13078 this vendor lock-in makes things difficult if you ever want to change manufacturers, or even just to share information with other hobbyists.

I am looking to change to something like FreePCB which is open source and outputs Gerber-compatible data. I'll let you know how my learning progresses!

Thanks, yes ExpressPCB has it's positive points but it's as you well pointed out limited in a way.

Had a quick look at FreePCB and look forward to your further comments.

 

I have used four schematic PCB programs in my life: orcad suite, PADS, eagle, and altium designer. Hands down, altium is the best by far. Secondly, PADs, then orcad, then eagle.

Steve

 

I have used four schematic PCB programs in my life: orcad suite, PADS, eagle, and altium designer. Hands down, altium is the best by far. Secondly, PADs, then orcad, then eagle.

Steve

Thanks for advice Steve. I'm a bit short of time at the moment but I will have a look at the first three as I have already tried Eagle.

 

I like LTspice its free and it is intuitive to use

 

Thanks for all the excellent feedback! I'm currently in the process of (manually) transcribing my designs from ExpressPCB to CadSoft's Eagle. For experimental and academic use there's a FREE version of the software which does everything the full-featured version does but is limited in the size of the PCBs you can design. For hobbyist use I haven't found this to be a limitation. It's also free to use the software to convert other people's designs to work with your own - so even if you don't like Eagle, you can use it to transcribe a colleague's work into a package you prefer.

So far I have been creating fairly small double-sided boards (20mm x 60mm) and while the interface definitely takes some getting used to, once you understand the concepts behind it, it becomes quite simple. Definitely harder to get started with than ExpressPCB, but it is much more powerful and flexible software. At this stage I have almost finished the PCB design, so I still don't know exactly how difficult and expensive it will be to have my final designs fabricated, but a quick web search indicates I shouldn't have too much trouble.

This is important to me because I don't like using dead-end software. I want to work in electronics one day so I'd prefer to learn software that is actually in use by the industry: I want my hobby to me marketable. With this in mind, I initially tried a free version of Protel (now known as Altium) but this was intended for DOS and there were just too many problems getting it to work RELIABLY under Windows. I have no doubt that it too is extremely powerful, and it would have been great to learn my way around one of the most popular tools for engineers, but the old DOS interface was just too painful.

There are some great free tutorials online, which I won't link to as we all have different styles of learning. Google is your friend!

So in summary, I have tried three "free" PCB and schematic packages, which I'll summarise here. Your experience may vary, so go and experiment with whatever sounds good, or whatever you think you'll be able to get assistance with if you have trouble!

1. ExpressPCB 6.1.4. free, and super quick and easy to use. Fully integrated - you draw the schematic, then the PCB, then upload it to the fabricator, all in the one software package. Quick and economical delivery of finished boards within the USA. The major drawback is for people outside the USA who are let down by high delivery charges and delays. The Vendor lock-inmakes it difficult to find alternative sources for your PCBs. I'd really only recommend it for USA residents, or who have good connections to a USA resident.

2. Autotrax 1.61. The leading design software back in the early 1990s, the predecessor of the Altium/Protel family which is now one of the most popular packages in the industry (especially here in .au). Autotrax is free however it is DOS-based and quite awkward to use if you're not familiar with DOS.

3. CadSoft Eagle 5.4.0. Free versions available. Another suite popular in the industry, it is available for Linux, Mac and Windows. Fairly intuitive to use, the schematic editor is nicely integrated with the PCB editor. The autorouter has received some bad press but for my fairly simple designs I have found it quite useful. As yet I haven't actually submitted a PCB design to be manufactered yet but the software contains tools to convert Eagle files into popular formats for third-paries to manufacture.

So that's an update. I hope the above is useful for people who are getting started in designing their own PCBs. I will be back here to let you know if I had any success getting my Eagle designs built!

I hope this is useful to people who are just starting to design their own PCBs. Of course this is just my own experience, so by all means go out and do some googling, there are plenty of other options out there!

 

Here's Wiring-X, I've been using it lately, is pretty simple.
http://www.iq-technologies.net/downloads/schematic/006/index.html
Had to use an Icon maker to make a few symbols. Just make em and put em in the appropriate "component" folder where the program files are kept under program files directory, etc.
Can even make new component folder, etc.
Only thing ya can't do is type letters/values/words. I just do all that with Photoshop.
That bit about making new components, just go to "new components" thing, I still haven't found that.
I just use icon maker as stated above, etc