where does the growth end?

loosewire

Joined Apr 25, 2008
1,686
That puts you in a special position, there a few members that make,or build

things that people need. If you are lucky you can join the self made man club.

I am a member beleive it or not.
 

justtrying

Joined Mar 9, 2011
439
One thing is, people will never be content, what ever the regime may be. The human nature does drive us to seek out new challenges. I tend to think that problem is the size of society as opposed to its system.

or

" Perhaps money stops people from being nice. Nobody here has any money, for example, and they're all nice." White Guard. Bulgakov
 

magnet18

Joined Dec 22, 2010
1,227
Jumping past pages 2-5, I just wanna say that it seems to me that a properly functioning economy COULD, theoretically, grow perpetually, in finding new resources and methods of exploitation of them and, of course, more land.
In fact, it will have to. As a well known fact, human population will refuse to stagnate. Not just third world countries with little access to birth control, even america has an exploding population. It is clear to me that eventually one planet will not be enough, and in the distant future not even one solar system, or galaxy; but that day is far off indeed, and I regret my apparent inability to be a part of it.
 

magnet18

Joined Dec 22, 2010
1,227
You know, if the planet realizes that resources on earth could run out, it wouldn't be a bad thing. I want a freaking moon colony.
 

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
6,782
The fact that an otherwise logical person such as yourself is seriously suggesting we move to another planet is evidence enough for me that you've recognized the truth but not yet accepted it. This empire will fall just like all those that came before it. We are at or near the breaking point of a bubble of which the likes have never been seen. Even if we had intergalactic travel by 2020, that would not be soon enough
 

Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
23,415
Actually, if it weren't for immigrants, legal or otherwise, the USA would be in the same boat as EU and Japan. Their populations are shrinking, dramatically so. Give women a chance at the good life, and they can put off having kids until it is too late.

Exploding populations do not have to be the norm.

When ignorance is the norm, and standard education low, this is when the populations blows up. In some cases people do not have the facts to exercise other options.
 

justtrying

Joined Mar 9, 2011
439
the question remains... how will people behave? There is a great book to look at human nature and the choices we make - Mephisto (movie is quite good too). Also about rise of nationalism, how people get sucked in hoping for change not realizing what the reality is, same thing happened in Russia, many students and upper class were supporting the idea of a revolution since early 19th century hoping that it will bring relief to the working class, but things never work out the way we think they would.

People mentioned Germany, if you saw this happening in your country, would you leave? How do you fight a tidal wave so large?
 

magnet18

Joined Dec 22, 2010
1,227
The fact that an otherwise logical person such as yourself is seriously suggesting we move to another planet is evidence enough for me that you've recognized the truth but not yet accepted it. This empire will fall just like all those that came before it. We are at or near the breaking point of a bubble of which the likes have never been seen. Even if we had intergalactic travel by 2020, that would not be soon enough
2020 is impossible.
2200 is more probable, and I wasn't talking about america specifically, but humanity in general. "The dinosaurs died out because they were incapable of creating an adequate spacefaring civilization."

@bill, interesting point. Still, it remains whether all those people will be educated and lives bettered before earth runs out of room.

If earths population stagnates and humanity becomes content with a cease of expansion, never putting people on other planets long term, i will be much dissapoint.
 

maxpower097

Joined Feb 20, 2009
816
Since I don't live there I can only draw conclusions as an outsider.

However the USA also suffered economic woes in the depression, but did not embrace National Socialism.

Once outstanding difference then and now is that the USA is natural resource rich, unlike Germany.
The Nazi 'economic miracle' was founded on two undesireable activities viz slave labour and seizing the resources of others.
This is also when we were hiding in our closets from the evil communists. Since then we've realized socialist systems are sometimes best. Like police, fire dept, (I feel healthcare) and other smaller socialist programs.
 

Thread Starter

praondevou

Joined Jul 9, 2011
2,942
Thanks for all the comments. Even if we are not one step further we have something to think about.

There seems to be an agreement on two facts:

- overpopulation is bad
- we have to start thinking about how to better administrate our resources in order for them not to run out

Two ways out of it. It has to get much worse until we realize that there is no way to continue like this or we do something now. If it was now then what would it be? I guess the situation for us is not bad enough yet...

Thanks
 

justtrying

Joined Mar 9, 2011
439
who is "we"? our rulers are concerned only with making money (much like those before them) so as some realize that situation is bad enough, others choose to simply ignore it as the pay off is too great. We the people can only switch from incandescent light bulbs to florescent ones. Or compost our garbage. Now if everybody only bought things as needed, that may actually change the way economy is run. But only last week I heard a classmate say that an ipod makes him happy...

p.s. people do realize that high birth rate is a survival strategy for H. sapiens and has little to do with education or other things? If your child is not likely to survive to age of 3, you better have more than one. Children are expensive.
 

loosewire

Joined Apr 25, 2008
1,686
Gas, we are not running out,the more we save the more they export.

Guy on fox news was explaining the gas exports,the one p.m. cuttie

cut him short,the producer said some thing in her ear piece,then she says

I don't want to talk about that question. Either side the public looses.

The $ 1.5 trillion exstenstion was being signed,Rush was on the air he just

missed it,while all the other radio station were reporting it.You have to listen.
 

justtrying

Joined Mar 9, 2011
439
what it is is that right now growth and development equal to acquiring more of everything both on individual and global level. Like the concept of a stereotypical tourist, instead of taking in the experience of the placing to carry away with you (true growth), running around buying meaningless souvenirs ("economic" growth). Until this is seen as fallacy, nothing will change, disparity will only grow. It might flip-flop as China and India gain upper hand, but the overall picture will remain.
 

Thread Starter

praondevou

Joined Jul 9, 2011
2,942
You should read both

Schumaker : Small is beautiful

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_Is_Beautiful
He wrote this in 1973. :eek:

The last decades may have been the most pleasant ones for many living in the western world, in terms of consuming.

I'm looking at it as if we were eating a very big chocolate bar and now we are seeing that it will end, even though it seemed to be infinitely big :cool:
 
Top