Take an old hack saw blade and break off a 2 or 3 inch length with pliers. It will snap cleanly when bent far enough. Use some medium grit paper and sand a sharp edge on an end. Hold it with pliers and place it on a seam of the transformer plate. HIT IT HARD with a hammer and you will pry the plate cleanly off the stack. Then the clean up will be easier but never easy.

 

I'd really like to get my hands on a virgin strip roll. I'm judging by the answers so far, that is a pipe dream?

 

The answer to the original question is economics. It is just not worth the effort to serve the hobbyist market -- regardless of its apparent size.

 

The answer to the original question is economics. It is just not worth the effort to serve the hobbyist market -- regardless of its apparent size.

Well I didn't ask why, but that's good to know anyway.

I wonder if what you say is universally applicable. Or, if "It is just not worth the effort to serve the hobbyist market" - for the manufacturers. Those guys build their whole business model around big industrial production; big machines making big amounts of big metal for big business. It wouldn't be worth their time and effort to cut that big stuff down and sell it to small fries like us. But do you think it would be worth the effort someone, anyone to do it?

I'm glad you brought this up, because I was wanting to ask. I've got a "wild hair in the ass" business idea; I'll ask hypothetically, and literally: If I bought 5tons of cold-rolled grain-oriented electrical steel from mainland China, paid for all the shipping, paid to have it cut up into strip-disks, and tried to peddle it here, would I have any buyers?

 

Does this relate to your earlier thread on using a motors stator to make a transformer? Are you sure that grain oriented is what you want? Many things use the non-oriented steel too. I don't think the heat needed to remove the varnish would be high enough to hurt the steel. Lamination's, motor or transformer go through an atmosphere heat treat after stamping to put an oxide coating on them. That black color on them is the result of that process.

The toroidal transformers use strips because it's cheaper than stampings. Isn't the edge of the lamination that gives the lines of magnetic force their 'loop'? Not the flat sides. A stator should give more lines of force to cut the wires than a coil of steel as a core.

 

Does this relate to your earlier thread on using a motors stator to make a transformer? Are you sure that grain oriented is what you want?

No it isn't. This idea is pretty much the opposite of that one. I'm envisioning an axial flux motor with a wound rotor, made out of transformer steel. Pretty much an alternator-turned-into-a-motor, but with better motor characteristics (from what I've read, automotive alternators are only about 60% efficient as motors, due to the large air gap)

 

Well I didn't ask why, but that's good to know anyway.

I wonder if what you say is universally applicable. Or, if "It is just not worth the effort to serve the hobbyist market" - for the manufacturers. Those guys build their whole business model around big industrial production; big machines making big amounts of big metal for big business. It wouldn't be worth their time and effort to cut that big stuff down and sell it to small fries like us. But do you think it would be worth the effort someone, anyone to do it?

I'm glad you brought this up, because I was wanting to ask. I've got a "wild hair in the ass" business idea; I'll ask hypothetically, and literally: If I bought 5tons of cold-rolled grain-oriented electrical steel from mainland China, paid for all the shipping, paid to have it cut up into strip-disks, and tried to peddle it here, would I have any buyers?

I don't know what numbers would be involved, but your time and your capital both have a value. There is nothing worse than spending a bunch of money to do something, only to discover that nobody cares. I would start with some marketing data to see who your target market might be and what they would be willing to pay. Even then after acquiring it and storing it you might still end up scrapping it.

My example was DeviceNet cable which Allen Bradley had custom made by Belden. We purchased four 1000' spools at about $0.50/foot. It took us about 4 years to parcel it out in 100' pieces to other developers of DeviceNet products, because the Belden distributors would only sell the 1000' spools. Other divisions of Allen Bradley even bought it from us. It got our name in the "papers" so to speak but I'm not sure it was worth it because of the overhead involved in taking the order, measuring the cable, packing it, and shipping it.

 

I'd really like to get my hands on a virgin strip roll. I'm judging by the answers so far, that is a pipe dream?

You might be able to buy some scrap but the producers make rolls designed for automatic batch processing. I could give you a 100+ kVA dry transformer to scrap for the steel core but you have to move it out with your own dime. (its been sitting at the same spot inside where they dropped it off the fork for 10 years because it's close to 1/2 ton)

 

Long shot here, we had a electric motor manufacturer here in town. It went by several different names before closing, Magnatec, Century, and the last, A.O. Smith. Anyways the local scrap yard bought all their waste, including partially used rolls of steel. If there is a motor/transformer manufacturer in your area I would check out that possibility.

 

I could give you a 100+ kVA dry transformer to scrap for the steel core but you have to move it out with your own dime. (its been sitting at the same spot inside where they dropped it off the fork for 10 years because it's close to 1/2 ton)

Now that would be awesome! Too bad we don't live closer. If I had the time, I might even consider driving up there to get it.

 

Now that would be awesome! Too bad we don't live closer. If I had the time, I might even consider driving up there to get it.

Long trip and don't take the 10 to California.

http://www.pe.com/articles/thunderstorms-773793-north-inland.html

 

Long trip and don't take the 10 to California.
http://www.pe.com/articles/thunderstorms-773793-north-inland.html

oh, wow! I had no idea!

 

At the risk of "hijacking" this thread, why do so many supliers insist on only selling to customers that need "a truckload per week"!! I have had this issue 2 times this week with different parts and it is starting to get on my nerves.
If you want a crappy iPhone, no problem. At least 9 shops in the local mall here.. If you are looking for a 5/8 acme screw, good luck finding one in the state....

Sorry. Needed to vent before I blow a gasket (another thing I could not by unless I get 4 square meters ).

Yep. I go through this with a few of the local wholesale places near me every time I am in there for something and it's so stupid. HVAC places are the worst.

I come in as Joe nobody and want to buy a 115/24 VAC 300 VA transformer of which they carry in stock. Sorry you're not a licensed/authorized buyer so we cant just see you one unless we put a massive overcharge on it tripling the price unless you are willing to buy a case of 20 of them.

Then I give them my buyers ID or whatever else they want and now I can buy that one transformer at cost with no questions asked. WTF?

So who or what exactly makes selling an off the shelf item to Joe nobody illegal VS selling to Joe Nobody legal once he shows a card with some numbers and special stamp on it when its an item he can buy anywhere else online with no questions asked?

 

[QUOTE="



So who or what exactly makes selling an off the shelf item to Joe nobody illegal VS selling to Joe Nobody legal once he shows a card with some numbers and special stamp on it when its an item he can buy anywhere else online with no questions asked? [/QUOTE]
Same around here, only it's not legal or illegal, just another way to keep the local vendors coming back and supporting someone that keeps the prices up. It sucks, but that's how it is. Ironically, the same distributor keeps sending us (the school) catalogs, and when we call and try to buy parts we're informed they can't sell to us because we're not licensed A/C repair shop.

 

It's just a ploy to keep the parts away from the unlicensed competitors. It makes the licensed HVAC people think the vendors are protecting their average billing of $250/Hr. See also Grainger, eBay, Amazon.com

Websites that advertise as HVAC parts selling to the public still triple the prices, but at $12 for a $4 capacitor, it's a steal compared to the price of a house call ($89).

 

One of my first experiences in a local HVAC supply I overheard a few to the service guys there swapping stories and bragging up about how many pounds of refrigerant they have billed out from a typical 30 pound cylinder. The going average was at least 60 - 100 pounds.

I commented that doesn't that make anyone feel guilty for overcharging their customers for product you didn't actually sell?

Lets just say I could have stood up in church screamed the devils name and sh!t my pants all the way down into my socks and gotten better looks.

There may be honest HVAC service people out there but I have yet to ever meet one.

 

There may be honest HVAC service people out there but I have yet to ever meet one.

Hi there.

 

Hi there.

wow.... nice to make your acquaintance

 

Grain-oriented electrical steel, aka lamination steel, aka transformer iron, aka a lot of things. Where can I get it in small amounts? Every place I found that sells it, looks like the kind of outfit that only sells it if you sign a contract to order a truckload per week. Is there no online storefront that sells it with criminally high markup to garage inventor? I found some possibly promising results on alibaba but that website scares me.

I need a long strip roll, like the kind you would use to make toroidal transformers. Hell, even E-I laminations would be nice.

any leads?

These days, most old style florescent ballasts are made with wound cores - But I've never tried getting one apart.

I think some manufacturers form the wound tape core, then cut it in two with a very thin diamond saw. They wind the bobbin, then insert the 2 halves of core just like it was a stack of stampings.

 

No it isn't. This idea is pretty much the opposite of that one. I'm envisioning an axial flux motor with a wound rotor, made out of transformer steel. Pretty much an alternator-turned-into-a-motor, but with better motor characteristics (from what I've read, automotive alternators are only about 60% efficient as motors, due to the large air gap)

Are you sure your talking axial motor? A wound ring, can't see how that would work. You still need pole pieces, not even close to a car alternator. For a 'proof of concept' mild steel would probably work. Check out #3 in this link -
http://www.dextermag.com/resource-center/choosing-magnet-materials-faq Magnetic chucks for grinding and crane magnets use mild steel. I thought different about the crane magnets until my grandson worked for a company that made and rebuilt them, Winkle Industries.

Most steel manufactures would probably sell a whole single roll of silicon strip steel to you, many thousands of feet long. And weighing maybe 1/2 ton or more, they don't want to sell like a hundred feet though. Have you checked Thomas Registry? http://www.thomasnet.com/