# What is the state of a Falling Object?

Discussion in 'Physics' started by SplitInfinity, May 31, 2013.

1. ### SplitInfinity Thread Starter Member

Mar 3, 2013
369
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This question has been bothering me for some time.

I have in my hand a round iron ball the size of a Baseball. Now I can force this ball into a state of relative motion...and I used the word RELATIVE because the ball already is in a state of motion in our Universal Space/Time be it from the Earth spinning upon it's axis or the Earth orbiting the Sun or the sun orbiting the Galactic center or the Galaxy accelerating due to Universal Expansion...but you get the drift...but I can Force the ball into motion in a variety of ways.

I can throw the ball thus using my Biochemically and Bioelectrically powered arm I transfer Kinetic Energy and thus force the ball into motion...this Kinetic Transfer being the interaction of Quantum Fields...the Electron Orbital Fields that surround the atoms that make up the ball and my hand which being both Negatively charged repel each other as my arm and hand move and transfer the Kinetic Energy by the force created as these fields repel each other.

Now I could use a few taped on bottle rockets upon the balls surface and by Rocket Propulsion the ball will roll along a surface like a pinwheel. This time as the Rockets fire and this chemical reaction propels the exiting gasses from the burning rocket to cause a Kinetic Energy Transfer between those exiting gasses and the rockets attached to the ball...thus again...Quantum Field Interaction .

If I use a Magnet or even an Electromagnet to place the ball in motion...I am causing either an attraction or repulsion between the ball and such a magnet as the unfilled Electron Orbits of the Iron Atoms that make up this ball will attract and be attracted to any magnet or electromagnet that has the ability to shed electrons. Thus again...Interaction of Quantum Fields.

In EVERY CASE so far where an Object is Forced into motion there has been Quantum Field Interaction and a FORCE has been applied to place the ball into a state of Motion...but what exactly is the STATE of the ball when the ball is FALLING DUE TO GRAVITY?

Now as the ball falls...there is no Quantum Field Interaction, there is no Kinetic Force Transfer, there is no Magnetic attraction or Repulsion...but yet the ball falls.

We understand Gravity as Space/Time Dimensionality or the Warping or Curving of Space/Time. Now as the ball is dropped out of my hand and falls...and here is my question for those of you who would consider pondering it...............................................

............is the ball being FORCED into Falling or is the ball...Existing upon infinite points of position relative to a one dimensional state dependent upon the passage of linear time?

Since we know that the ultimate Gravitational State is a Singularity...which is the One Dimensional State achieved by Black Holes...we understand that Gravity itself and it's Geometry is specific to One Dimensionality.

Since Linear Time does not exist in a One Dimensional State...nor does distance of any kind...could it be that the falling ball is not actually in a state of Forced Motion but rather is in a state of TRANSITIONAL EXISTENCE?

Split Infinity

2. ### SplitInfinity Thread Starter Member

Mar 3, 2013
369
9
Sorry that post was so long but I don't know of an easy way to explain it nor a shorter way.

Split Infinity

3. ### nsaspook AAC Fanatic!

Aug 27, 2009
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2,352
I usually think of gravity as matter assuming an original or lower energy state. The ball didn't just appear from nothing, the energy contained in the mass the atoms and all the fundamental forces in it is connected to all the matter and energy in the universe in a way we just don't understand. We know that gravity affects time so perhaps gravity is the energy force of time moving forward from the point of creation and the separation of all the energy/mass of the universe.
http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=96095009&m=96162089

4. ### LDC3 Active Member

Apr 27, 2013
920
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My brain hurts.

5. ### davebee Well-Known Member

Oct 22, 2008
539
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For the case of gravity, we don't know whether there is quantum field interaction, because whether gravity has a quantum nature is not understood.

Dropping the ball may in fact also be a quantum field interaction but we just don't know (yet?).

6. ### Wendy Moderator

Mar 24, 2008
20,772
2,540
I was thinking something similar. The fact truly is we do not understand a lot of nature, such as gravity. We have a lot of math that describes things with fair accuracy, but the real complete (emphasis on complete) understanding eludes us. Every answered question brings on new questions. May it always be so.

7. ### SplitInfinity Thread Starter Member

Mar 3, 2013
369
9
Well I personally believe that the connectivity you are attempting to describe is a Quantum Interconnectivity....and Interconnectivity is not a real word but it is the only one that would describe what I am trying to say as connective or connectivity are words that describe the state or ability or structure of something to something else. Interconnectivity even though not a real word...is describing the state, ability or structure of the CONNECTIVITY itself.

So when I am using the term Quantum Interconnectivity...I am describing the state of an INTERCONNECTIVE SYSTEM as being Quantum in it's nature...I AM NOT describing a Interconnective system existing amongst Quantum Particle/Wave Forms.

I know it seems confusing and some might think I am saying the same thing...but I am not.

Thus the Quantum Particle/Wave Forms themselves are the mechanism and part of the construct in a manner similar to this system being the U.S. Postal Service....the Quanta being the Postal Worker/Mail Carriers and Trucks and Planes...the results of this postal service being delivered mail...thus the delivered mail being the Natural Laws within our Reality as well as Infinite Divergent States of our Reality existing as such Macro-Physics and Quantum Physics and Mechanics.

So the Physics=Mail...which is being generated or delivered by the Quantum Particle/Wave Forms=Mail Carrier/Postal Workers, Trucks and Planes....of which all are part of an Interconnective System=U.S. Postal Service.

So the System that is the U.S. Postal Service using workers and vehicles to deliver the mail and the System that would be Multiversal Particle Mechanics...using Quantum Particle/Wave Forms to generate Natural Physical Laws in our Universal Reality and all Divergent States of.

Split Infinity

8. ### SplitInfinity Thread Starter Member

Mar 3, 2013
369
9
Your right that we really don't know what Gravity is or how it is being generated...but we can use certain observations to perform and create concepts and calculations.

And using that...here is one of the main reasons I believe that Gravity is an Expression of One Dimensionality or the resulting Space/Time Geometry as well as how I am fairly certain that Gravity is an Effect and Not a Force.

When a FORCE is used to move an object it does so in a manner where the amount of force required to place an object that is 10 times greater in mass than another object will be a Force 10 times greater than the amount of force required to place the object with 1/10th the mass. This being if all conditions for both are equal.

This is NOT the case as far as Gravity.

Whether a falling object in a vacuum has 10 times or 50 times or a thousand times the mass of another object...they will fall at the same rate and hit the ground at the same time.

If Gravity was any type of generated force...it would not be able to do this.

Split Infinity

9. ### Wendy Moderator

Mar 24, 2008
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Which goes to the math. It explains very little.

10. ### SplitInfinity Thread Starter Member

Mar 3, 2013
369
9
Well I think it explains that Gravity is not a FORCE or at the very least does not behave or act as a force would.

Split Infinity

11. ### nsaspook AAC Fanatic!

Aug 27, 2009
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If we are living in a 4D (space,time) projection of something else then as long as we exist in our projection of true reality all of our theories of that true reality are unprovable. The many universe theory is a way to have more than one projection point painting our view of the universe so we can see around the backside of space much like we do with a 3D movie on a 2D screen. It might show some structure of of 'true' reality like gravity or the model might be showing us the mathematical equivalent of Alice down the rabbit hole as they are both equally possible and impossible to prove or predict much like quantum randomness.

http://www.alice-in-wonderland.net/alicepic/alice-in-wonderland/1book14.jpg

Last edited: May 31, 2013
12. ### nsaspook AAC Fanatic!

Aug 27, 2009
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A FORCE is just a mathematical model/construct of a physical phenomena. We have very good models of gravity starting from Newton to Special Relativity explaining how it behaves. What we don't have are good models of what it IS.

13. ### Markd77 Senior Member

Sep 7, 2009
2,803
594
If you have 1 ball with a mass of 1kg what is the force on it due to Earth's gravity and what would it's acceleration be if it was dropped?
If you put 10 of them in a row would the same be true for each?
What if you stuck the balls together?

14. ### SplitInfinity Thread Starter Member

Mar 3, 2013
369
9
Well that is the question isn't it?

You ask what is the force upon it? I do not believe there is a force acting upon it at all but for arguments sake...in a vacuum...dropped upon the Earth...the ball will encounter 1-G of relative force and will fall at 32 feet per second squared thus 9.80665 Newtons per Kg...this in a vacuum because if in atmosphere there would so many Newtons of Air Resistance thus......

.....This linear hypothesis means that there is a positive constant k such that

F...air = -ks(t)
for all t. The positive constant k is the constant of proportionality and its units are kg/sec; the numerical value of k depends upon the shape of the object being dropped and the density of the atmosphere.

Total Force, Acceleration, and Speed

We now see that the total force acting on the falling object at any time t is given by F...total = F...gravity + F...air = mg - ks(t)

If not in a vacuum depending upon an objects geometry due to Earth's atmosphere an object will encounter a Terminal Velocity which occurs due to the air column in front of the falling object that will cease a state of acceleration of it's fall. Terminal Velocity is different for different objects with different geometry and even though Mass does not play a role in the rate at which an object falls in a vacuum as all objects regardless of mass fall at the same rate in a vacuum....but in an atmosphere...two balls of equal size one made of iron the other of styrofoam...the object made of iron falling in atmosphere will be able to gather momentum quicker and easier as well as not be effected by crosswinds to the same extent as even though their geometry is the same.

So anyways...it matters not if there are 10 objects or 100 or 1000. Nor does it matter if the objects have a mass that is 1 kg or 100 kg or 10,000 kg...Gravity will effect each the objects no matter the mass, size, number or geometry in a manner that any known application of a FORCE CANNOT.

All ten 1 Kg balls in a row will each experience a 9.80665 Newtons per Kg of relative force. I say relative because I am certain it is not a force at all.

If a FORCE was being applied to move the balls...let's say we have a 1 kg ball...a 10 kg, a 100 kg and a 1000 kg balls. If an Electomagnet was being used to cause the balls to rise upwards....and the amount of force applied was enough to raise a 1 kg ball up 10 cm to the magnet...but not capable of doing the same for the 100 kg and 1000 kg balls....so it is necessary to increase the amount of electricity going to the electromagnet and so we do so by an increase of 100 times the energy...now the 1 kg and 100 kg balls will rise up but the 1000 kg ball will not.

Thus the Force required to move 10 kg in the same manner and rate and distance it takes to move 1 kg is 10 Times greater. Thus is true in the case of apply a FORCE to place a variety of objects of different masses into motion....EXCEPT IN THE CASE OF GRAVITY.

So I propose that Gravity is NOT A FORCE at all but rather an EFFECT specific to Space/Time Dimensionality and Gravity is an Expression of One Dimensionality.

Split Infinity

15. ### SplitInfinity Thread Starter Member

Mar 3, 2013
369
9
Spook...just by our observations of Quantum Mechanics and Quantum Particle/Wave Form duality of state...acting as both Particle and Wave...and of course looking at Gravity....WE KNOW...with 100% Certainty that 4 Dimensional States of our Universal Space/Time Geometry is not enough Dimensional States for Matter and Atomic Particle within an Atoms Nucleus as well as the Quantum Particle/Wave Forms that surround the atomic nucleus in Orbiting Quantum Fields...ie...Electrons...as well as Photons and all the Quanta that actually completely comprise all Atomic Particles....CANNOT EXIST WITHIN A 4-D UNIVERSAL STATE.

In all likely hood a MINIMUM of 10 or 11 Dimensional States and I am thinking it is probably more...A LOT MORE...are required for all Matter and Energy to exist in our Universal State...as I also believe that just for our Universe to exist infinite other Universal Realities must also exist as this would explain Quantum Mechanics and Dark Energy and Dark Matter.

As far as Gravity is concerned...the behavior and aspects of Gravity and how gravity effects not only Particles of Mass but Particle/Wave Forms of Energy as well. Gravity does not effect Matter and Energy in a manner consistent with the application or interaction of any Force known to us.

In fact the behavior and observations of Gravitic Effect are in no way consistent or relative to the behavior and observations of a Force acting upon Matter and Energy.

Split Infinity

16. ### SplitInfinity Thread Starter Member

Mar 3, 2013
369
9
Every Model we have that is describing or representing the application and behavior of a FORCE upon Matter and Energy is a Model that is consistent and does not break down due to special conditions or circumstances.

This is NOT TRUE for Models of Gravity. Certain aspects of Gravity and certain behavior of result of Gravitic Effect...cannot be described in any Model. Any Model where a FORCE...say a model that describes and represents all aspects of Electromagnetic Force...such a model can describe any and all states, conditions, results, aspects...etc...of EM-Force being applied.

Try the same for GRAVITY...you can't because a model with GRAVITY being the..."SUPPOSED FORCE"...breaks down when certain conditions arise. Thus the model is either an improper representation or the model is flawed.

OR....there is nothing wrong with the model what is wrong is THE ASSUMPTION THAT GRAVITY IS A FORCE...I a fairly certain it is not.

Split Infinity

17. ### LDC3 Active Member

Apr 27, 2013
920
160
Well, I guess Newton was wrong then. Should it be rewritten as "An object will remain at rest unless acted upon by an outside force or effect"? Is magnetism (or an electric field) an effect that creates a force?

18. ### SplitInfinity Thread Starter Member

Mar 3, 2013
369
9
Anyway's...getting back to the question that bothers me...that being...when an objects is falling...I think it is possible that the OBJECT IS NOT ACTUALLY IN MOTION.

I know how that sounds but if Gravity is in fact Space/Time Dimensionality and in specific...an Expression of One Dimensionality...then when an objects falls...it would NOT actually be moving.

Since we know by a variety of proved experiments and just a few years ago one of Einstein's theories GR specific was proven...http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/06/nasa-concludes-gravity-probe-b-space-time-experiment-proves-e/

Such experiments show us that Gravity IS in fact Space/Time Curvature and this curvature or Warping is specific to a state of ONE DIMENSIONALITY.

Being that so...when I drop something...THE OBJECTS IS NOT ACTUALLY MOVING...as unlike an object that a FORCE is being applied to...where there is a Kinetic Energy Transfer occurring due to Quantum Field Interaction...say I hit a baseball with a bat...the bat is in motion and the ball is struck by the bat causing the Potential Kinetic Energy in the ball moving toward me as well as the Potential Kinetic Energy in the swinging bat to transfer between each other as the Quantum Fields...ie...Electron Orbital Fields surrounding the Atoms comprising the bat and ball repel each other and transfer the kinetic energy as this becomes applied force.

So unlike this example when I drop the ball out of my hand and it starts moving...there is NO KINETIC ENERGY TRANSFER...NO APPLIED FORCE.

So I think that the ball is not actually moving but is rather existing upon infinite points of position...ala...One Dimensional Expression...and observable to what position it is upon in a perpendicular to the earths surface line...dependent upon the passage of Linear Time.

Split Infinity

19. ### Wendy Moderator

Mar 24, 2008
20,772
2,540
We have actually discussed this elsewhere, but you seem to have problems with it. The difference between acceleration and gravity is none, they can not be told apart if a person is subjected to either in a sealed room with no view of outside the room. It is the fundamental assumption that created a lot of Einstein's concepts, and it has withstood the test of time and experiments. The mathematical units to describe either is identical. This is not a coincidence.

20. ### SplitInfinity Thread Starter Member

Mar 3, 2013
369
9
Newton I believe was wrong and just to add to this...when a FORCE is applied to an object the object will move in a manner that is specific to the amount of applied force. So on Earth on a flat plane if it takes a person kicking 100 foot pounds of applied force to cause a ball of iron to move 100 cm and stop...it will take additional force applied in a direct ratio of 2 to 1 to move the same object 200 cm.

If we want to move this object and have it accelerate at a constant of say 32 feet per second squared upon that plane...the applied force will have to continue to increase even after the application of such a force will drop off as the momentum of the rolling ball will require a lessor amount of force that was first applied to get it rolling...in order for the ball to continue accelerating be it at a constant or not....the amount of force applied will continue to grow to force the object into a ever growing rate of speed.

If Gravity is the means to move the object in a fall...unlike a Force that must increase continually to allow the ball to roll at 32 feet per second squared...if Gravity was a force and increasing in such a way...You and I would forever increase in our WEIGHT...but we don't even though a ball falling will in a vacuum continue to fall at 32 feet per second squared until it hits the ground.

Split Infinity