Have there been "real world" driving tests similar to the VW "discovery"? None that I've seen. It would be a marketing feather in the cap of those manufacturers whose models actually passed an independent test.

West Virginia university was who found the VW cheat, in real driving tests, not a "test cell". They have been on the fore front of diesel testing for all forms of transportation. http://www.cafee.wvu.edu/

 

The question remains ... How many domestic vehicles passed this simulated "real world" driving tests?

I say simulated because I doubt they drive the route like common folks.

Confirming the EU study of VW emissions was great. The link did not bear any new results. They must have broken their arms patting themselves on the back

 

Confirming the EU study of VW emissions was great. The link did not bear any new results. They must have broken their arms patting themselves on the back

patting themselves on the back? Did you understand the chain of events at all?

 

I know the EU suspected the cheat and wrote a paper on it a year before. The former head of the EPA, now a board member of a enviromental group passed it to WVU and secured funding for the "test".

WVU confirmed the details of the paper.

This brought the EPA and CARB to high alert.

 

I know the EU suspected the cheat and wrote a paper on it a year before. The former head of the EPA, now a board member of a enviromental group passed it to WVU and secured funding for the "test".

WVU confirmed the details of the paper.

This brought the EPA and CARB to high alert.

Are you sure about this? It seems like EU disagrees with you. https://euobserver.com/environment/133127

 

I know the EU suspected the cheat and wrote a paper on it a year before. The former head of the EPA, now a board member of a enviromental group passed it to WVU and secured funding for the "test".

WVU confirmed the details of the paper.

This brought the EPA and CARB to high alert.

And you somehow glean they are breaking their own arms as they pat themselves on the back. They were the only place that had on-board equipment to do a field test. If someone wanted a test in a "real world" situation, they had to go to WVU. I think WVU should advertise their capabilities and successes to keep their research center busy and outside dollars flowing in and minimize the need for federal/state/tuition funding. Do you think differently? Are you saying they should have kept their mouth shut? I don't understand your "They must have broken their arms patting themselves on the back" statement. Could you please elaborate?

 

I think WVU should advertise their capabilities and successes to keep their research center busy and outside dollars flowing in and minimize the need for federal/state/tuition funding.

I concur whole-heartedly.

I disagree that WVU is the ONLY PLACE in the world capable of doing the tests. The EU discovered the "anomaly" that we call the "cheat".

from: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ons-cheating-found-by-curious-clean-air-group
Discrepancies in the European tests on the diesel models of the VW Passat, the VW Jetta and the BMW X5 last year gave Peter Mock an idea.

Mock, European managing director of a little-known clean-air group, suggested replicating the tests in the U.S. The U.S. has higher emissions standards than the rest of the world and a history of enforcing them, so Mock and his American counterpart, John German, were sure the U.S. versions of the vehicles would pass the emissions tests, German said. That way, they reasoned, they could show Europeans it was possible for diesel cars to run clean.

Peter Mock's group discovered the anomaly and WVU replicated it. Then CARB and the EPA swung into regulatory action.

 

I concur whole-heartedly.

I disagree that WVU is the ONLY PLACE in the world capable of doing the tests. The EU discovered the "anomaly" that we call the "cheat".



Peter Mock's group discovered the anomaly and WVU replicated it. Then CARB and the EPA swung into regulatory action.

I'm not going to describe all the hair splitting differences between the European "real world" test and the full swuite of simultaneous tests in a light-weight modular system that can be con by WVU - I can accept that you view them to be equivalent. My question remains,

I don't understand your "They must have broken their arms patting themselves on the back" statement. Could you please elaborate?

 

With no "new" information, are they resting on their laurels? No news of additional testing. It's like they confirmed the European Lab's results because of the CARB and EPA aggressive regulatory history. Yes, I agree, it gets the unscrupulous player fined, but, it doesn't confirm the other manufacturers claims of emissions.

It's not very transparent if any additional tests are done and the results IF they are done.

 

@JoeJester From your point of view they are resting on their laurels AND breaking their arms as they pat themselves on the back.

So, you still haven't defended / explained your breaking their arms patting themselves on the back statement. Are you just going to leave it having and not defend it AND not withdraw it?

 

If your patting yourself on the back for some previous work, your not working to further the cause.

One would think the movement would be funding more high profile testing. Of course they might be waiting for a finder's fee for the last one ... You know, like the drug law that the locals receive a share of the fine.

 

If your patting yourself on the back for some previous work, your not working to further the cause.

that statement by itself is debatable - confirming science is important as pushing the frontiers of science. But I still don't understand what WVU did to merit your comment of "breaking their arm patting themselves on the back". Were they tooting their horn and claiming they did everything? No, they weren't. You are just trying to be a wet blanket and criticize for the sake of criticizing. I'm sorry you couldn't have been involved in something important. Or, if you have been, I'm sorry you still are not and somehow feel inadequate enough to be a wet blanket over and over and over again. I don't know what is going on in your life but the researchers at WVU don't deserve your comments - they were not patting themselves on the back for their ability to confirm the results of the European team. They just reported facts and stated their capabilities.

 

confirming science is important as pushing the frontiers of science.

What science was confirmed in the VW cheat? The standard was set, an anomaly was found, and it was confirmed. A cheat device was discovered. I'm unclear on the "science frontier" that was being pushed.

Is that science or bad regulation by CARB and/or EPA? The vehicle met all the standards while being tested in accordance with the promulgated rules. Yes it failed the nox standard when being driven. Yes they cheated. There was no "frontier" in this issue.

Were they tooting their horn and claiming they did everything? No, they weren't. You are just trying to be a wet blanket and criticize for the sake of criticizing.

Most of the accolades for "discovering" this was credited to WVU. WVU has been silent on correcting the record.

I give them the kudos they earned. It was handed to them only because the EPA/CARB is known to enforce the regulations. They certainly had to confirm it prior to EPA/CARB action.

 

What science was confirmed in the VW cheat? The standard was set, an anomaly was found, and it was confirmed. A cheat device was discovered. I'm unclear on the "science frontier" that was being pushed.

Is that science or bad regulation by CARB and/or EPA? The vehicle met all the standards while being tested in accordance with the promulgated rules. Yes it failed the nox standard when being driven. Yes they cheated. There was no "frontier" in this issue.



Most of the accolades for "discovering" this was credited to WVU. WVU has been silent on correcting the record.

I give them the kudos they earned. It was handed to them only because the EPA/CARB is known to enforce the regulations. They certainly had to confirm it prior to EPA/CARB action.

@JoeJester
Now I understand. I suggest a course to improve your reading comprehension and expand your vocabulary. I'm done.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/09/business/volkswagen-diesel-emissions-investigation-settlement.html

The Federal Bureau of Investigation has arrested a Volkswagen executive who faces charges of conspiracy to defraud the United States, two people with knowledge of the arrest said on Sunday, marking an escalation of the criminal investigation into the automaker’s diesel emissions cheating scandal.

Oliver Schmidt, who led Volkswagen’s regulatory compliance office in the United States from 2014 to March 2015, was arrested on Saturday by investigators in Florida and is expected to be arraigned on Monday in Detroit, said the two people, a law enforcement official and someone familiar with the case.

After a study by West Virginia University first raised questions over Volkswagen’s diesel motors in early 2014, Mr. Schmidt played a central role in trying to convince regulators that excess emissions were caused by technical problems rather than by deliberate cheating. Much of the data presented to regulators was fabricated, officials of the California Air Resources Board have said.

Mr. Schmidt continued to represent Volkswagen after the company admitted in September that cars were programmed to dupe regulators. He appeared before a committee of the British Parliament in January, telling legislators that Volkswagen’s behavior was not illegal in Europe.

 

That's interesting. That guy is just an American, but there's no way a guy at that level could operate on his own without his German bosses' full knowledge. He may me making deals right now to take the criminal investigation up the chain into Germany.

 

That's interesting. That guy is just an American, but there's no way a guy at that level could operate on his own without his German bosses' full knowledge. He may me making deals right now to take the criminal investigation up the chain into Germany.

"just an American?" What does that mean in the modern age of global business? Most Germany companies have Americans on their board of directors. Some have or have had American CEOs. Some Americans go to Germany for delegations and decide to stay. Many years later they are sent to the US to run a division or become CEO of the North American division. A phrase like, "Just an American" is a narrow view of global corporations. That is as stupid as saying, "it can't be good quality, it is made in China", as you press send on your Smart Phone (name any brand).

As for why this guy is arrested. He is the one who put his signature on the US government declaration that specific models met the emission requirements for new cars sold in the US. It also corresponds to the 2014 memo of the Attorney General stating that Federal Prosecutors should focus on arresting individuals and not corporations when federal crimes are committed. It is a much bigger deterrent to future scoundrels to know they might be arrested instead of being able to stand behind the corporate curtain. When a corporation is guilty of a crime, the only people who are punished are the shareholders.

 

Speaking as one who is now Volkswagen free. We had two of the offending TDI diesels, I am glad to hear that individuals are now (hopefully) getting charged. VW is well known for having tight internal controls on engineering changes, especially software, that rule out the rogue programmer defense. It will be very interesting to see how this progresses.

 

"just an American?" What does that mean in the modern age of global business?

It means VW is run from Germany, by the German labor unions and German owners. It means the guy just arrested was a mid-level peon compared to his German bosses.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-executives-martin-winterkorn-company-culture

http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwin...re-to-prosper-but-wont-get-it/2/#701cf8217d1b

 

It means VW is run from Germany, by the German labor unions and German owners. It means the guy just arrested was a mid-level peon compared to his German bosses.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-executives-martin-winterkorn-company-culture

http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwin...re-to-prosper-but-wont-get-it/2/#701cf8217d1b

I doubt it. Multinational Corporations don't send mid-level people go around the world convincing legislative and investigative authorities that his company is innocent and how laws should be interpreted.

Oliver Schmidt, really? That name could be German as easily as your American theory.