vehicle repair manuals ?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Mathematics!, Sep 8, 2013.

  1. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
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    I know Haynes manuals cover mostly all the car , small truck , motorcycle , scooter , ATV/UTV vehicles in terms of giving a pretty in-depth coverage of everything one would need to do in terms of maintenance repair/installation of parts. They also have in-depth coverage of small engines which cover blowers , lawn mowers , tillers ,generators...etc from 0 to 20 horsepower

    They even go into more specifics of certain complex parts of a system.
    Like you can get a manual from Haynes that covers just transmissions in depth , or just air conditioning systems /coolant/heating in depth , ...etc

    What I can't find and am curious about is the other vehicles that exist like airplanes (not just Cessna even commericial,fighter planes,helicopter..etc) , bus (like pvta , greyhound ,...etc ) , farmers tractors/machines , boats ( including carnival cruise /huge boats or ocean vessels ) , submarines , rockets.


    Basically I break these down into air vehicles , top water vehicles , underwater vehicles , space vehicles.

    Is there no brand name Haynes manual for air , space , and water?

    I would imagine that space would be more confidential in spec's , as well as military based air vehicles ...etc , as well as maybe the submarine /carnival cruise ships parts , but for jet ski's , recreational boats, I would imagine they would have a repair manual equivalent to Haynes.

    Also farmers tractors/vehicles they have to have some Haynes based manual that one could get for there repairs
    Since most farmers have to repair or have repairs done on there machine eventually down the line sometime and if they don't do it themselves there has to be a guy out there that learned how to fix them by reading a manual some where to refer to the procedure or at least some guy had to take a course in repairing tractor/farming equipment ... and I would imagine there was a book for it somewhere

    Weather made public or not each vehicle must have a manual for service just in case a person forgets a particular model step....

    To me it stands to reason if the vehicle can be obtained or owned by a person then there should be a manual on how to maintain , operate , services , repair it for him (so he can obtain it). Hell even the home appliances come with a short step by step installation paper for the ovens , air conditioners, refrigerators , gas water heaters ,...etc when you purchases them regardless of the free install so it stands to reason the same information should be made public to any appliance one can obtain so a person if he wanted to could services all his appliances / items if he wanted to. Not say he would in all cases but the opportunity should be there for him to do. And I would imagine there is a lot of people that like at times to do everything themselves building wises it give a certain satisfaction at least that you can do it all from scratch...
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2013
  2. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
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    Forgot one more land vehicle that train based vehicles.
    Is there a manual for these or is it just an apprentice ship

    Obvious there is probably know way to get manuals for a lot of these vehicles outside of working as a mechanic for the company like I doubt GreyHound buses make there manuals public.
    As well as I doubt that Amtrak makes there train manuals public.

    But curious when you buy a farming vehicle like a tractor does it come with its repair /maintaince Haynes like manual.
    Same with boats , small airplanes that a lot of people could own I would imagine this info would have to be publicly available.


    Maybe some train mechanics , greyhound mechanics , carnival cruise mechanics , submarine mechanics , jet fighter plane mechanics could explain more about the manuals or the structure of how they can figure out what has to be done procedure wise when working on a new type of vehicle
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2013
  3. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
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    I think I found my answer for boats seloc = Haynes equivalent for boats

    Though for personally owned farming equipment , personally owned based airplanes there still must be a manual made like seloc or Haynes that I can buy for learning the procedures of fixing these vehicles as well
     
  4. Metalmann

    Active Member

    Dec 8, 2012
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  5. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    For the automotive models I have owned, I have tended to obtain the Manufacturers Service Manuals, these go a little deeper into most areas than Chiltons or Haynes, ebay is a good source for used.
    I have found that most original service manuals are available for most equipment, even when it has been declared 'Proprietary' often someone puts it up on the www.
    Max.
     
  6. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
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    Ok , but I was more curious if there is a do it your selfers brand books for farming equipment/vehicles , airplanes as there are for the other based vehicles Haynes and Seloc cover like 75% of all vehicles in the world.

    I was wondering for the dyi of airplane repair and farming repair and other vehicles/equipment not covered by Haynes/seloc


    Obviously there is Manufacturers Service Manuals for every thing out there but I don't know how easy it is to access for rockets or fighter planes. Either way I was kind of hopeing had there would be a hanyes and seloc equivalent to the other 25% of vehicles/equipment in the world. Not just Haynes for motorcycles , cars , small trucks like vehicles , small home equipment engines ,...etc amd seloc for boats (inboard/outboard), jet ski ,...etc

    What I am getting at is if it doesn't fall into the categories of hanyes or seloc is it just basically a vehicle that just has a Manufacturers Service Manuals. And if that is the case I was more wondering if there is a books that cover the general procedures to fix and airplane or farmers equipment/vehicles ,...etc not specific to a given engine or model .

    But don't know maybe when you get into planes and other equipment/vehicles not covered by hanyes/seloc there are to different in the procedures to have a general fix book for all the makes/models for the dyi.

    Question 2
    Is I am curious if one had all the tools to fix a car, boat and small home equipment would he have most of the tools for fixing a plane, farming vehicles/equipment or does at some point the tools needed get to expensive /not obtainable unless you have access to a companies tools.

    Question 3
    Curious also when it comes to construction workers vehicles ... bucket loaders , steam rollers ,...etc Is there no dyi books series such as Haynes for these out. Normally how would a auto mechanic that wanted to go into the field of fixing construction machines , or large tractor trailer trucks , greyhound bus , carnival cruise ships , airplanes get the information to practice or learn with. Obviously in this field nothing would be practice on the real thing with a supervisor showing you but (at least for me I would want to have a book like the dyi at my side when understanding all of its components and how it works you won't necessary get that from being able to fix the vehicle. Example there are people that know how to build or fix components of car because they where taught a procedure but don't understand what to do outside of the box the theory and books with the hands on provides both aspects so one can be really good at understanding they why/how and physically fixing it.

    Please if anybody out there works for train repairs , airplane repairs , bus , construction vehicles ,...etc please post how you got into the field and what manuals you uses (or uses to uses on a particular vehicle that you didn't have the experience of fixing on a regular bases.)
    I am betting most of you where auto mechanics or knew how to fix cars and had at least a few Haynes manuals to start. But there are also the people that probably learned because the skills where passed down thru generation either way I would imagine at some point when go to an unfamiliar type of vehicle you had gain the info from reading something / some manual for the vehicles... (would imagine most people would have trouble fully understanding the just by word of mouth and being shown over actually seeing pictures/words/diagrams of general functions of the vehicles


    Also one last comment would the Manufacturers Service Manuals normally be more costly then the Haynes or dyi manuals. And can one always find them on ebay. It would be nice if there is a general book/manual for the vehicle types rather then a specific but one is probably not available
     
  7. sirch2

    Well-Known Member

    Jan 21, 2013
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    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  8. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    Well obtaining classified information such as Fighter aircraft manuals etc would be obvious be normally out of the question, those that get into this kind of service work for companies that are allied to the like of Boeing etc and require security clearance when obtain a position.
    The manuals for Locomotive equipment are supplied to the R.R.'s by the likes of GM Traction and ABB etc, also the Locomotive companies create their own in house documentation when they do retro-fits on Locomotives and allied equipment etc.
    There are many areas where it is difficult for those employed outside of the respective industry to obtain this documentation.
    You are usually only going to work in this field when employed by the companies involved in the relevant industry, satellite service companies are rare in some fields.
    As to the automotive, Haynes, et al, I found them OK up to a point but they lack the in depth detail, an example is the wiring schematics, OEM manuals have all the harness information, connector pin out etc in detail.
    The same goes for locating and repairing most of the mechanical items, they also include a step by step trouble shooting in all areas.
    They are much more expensive than Haynes etc, but worth it if you DIY your own auto repair and intend keeping the vehicle.
    Ebay is an option, if lucky.
    Max.
     
  9. cork_ie

    Member

    Oct 8, 2011
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    This is why people do apprentiships and learn all the fundementals.
    Doctors don't have access to a Haynes manual on the human body but get to know their stuff by a combination of learning and experience.Similarly I am sure a good TV repairman will be able to sniff his way around an unfamiliar set.
    Anyone proficient with motor vehicles will of course know all the fundementals and will eventually get there, manual or not. Manuals save time, give precise data instead of guessing , provide wiring diagrams which allow one to diagnose a problem without having to tear the vehicle apart etc.
    In the end of the day good motor mechanics, working on vehicles day in day out, are familiar with their environment and know how to diagnose and repair. They have the ability to extrapolate faultfinding & repair methods from one vehicle to the next , systems generally tend to be similar, depending on the age of the vehicle , irrespective of the manufacturer.
     
  10. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
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    Yes but for cars , motorcycles , Haynes supported vehicles it is for the most part easy to obtain the OEM or manufacture equivalents books for your make/model. Same with seloc I would believe for the boats, recreational water vehicles.

    So why is it some restrictive for the other manuals for instance even if I new how it all went from the manuals one would still need the parts and tools to build it. And the only people that can afford this would be bill gates and some countries.

    I have check ebay and they do have some Boeing,Airbus manuals, though not to much... but I would imagine for non-commercial airplanes the flying vehicles that people have privately owned should have a manual for the public just like car or any vehicle that is more non-commercial based.
    I looked on ebay for the tractors and I found a few manufacture books FarmAll ,Eastman , etc though not really general how to /dyi or a book more general covering the 90% of tractor fixes.
    Bus I couldn't find to much on.

    I will check the other big selling sites like amazon , ...etc but I doubt I would find much more for the planes , bus , tractors.

    Also What happens when the vehicle gets huge like a carnival cruise ship no one person could probably services a whole engine. So how do they have the manuals for this structured , tools , parts ,...etc Curious it is not like they can take a piston over to the machine shop or engine block over quite easily.

    I guess like you said commercial based vehicles need security clearance in most cases at least for the new vehicles old ones some time are sold on ebay I see. But even most old stuff when it comes to planes , bus ,...etc are still kept secret/need security clearance to obtain.

    Though I don't get why keeping a bus , plane , or other non-military vehicle is a matter of national security in this day in age I would imagine you want more people with the ability to learn anything they want so they can go into the trade with less of a steep learning curve. I do think leeking military based war based equipment/vehicles to the general world won't be a good idea though. But that would be it.
    Knowing the knowledge of how to fix a bus, build a satellite , build a rocket to go into space should be a good thing for the world. Knowing it does not imply people will have to tools or parts to ever completely build one. So what is the harm of having the knowledge with out the materials. The benefit is that one could easily be taken into the field with less of a steep learning curve.

    I am rambling.

    Please post if you are in these fields and what you had to go thru to get into these fields. Where you an auto mechanic or mechanic first before a company asked/recruited you into working on industry specific vehicles.
    And when you got there and had no idea on how to fix these vehicles just the high level parts/theory of piston , crankshaft ,...etc did they just give you the OEM manual to you to study and then you where an apprentices.
    Or was there another procedure you went thru

    Also how long did it take you from the start of being recruited into the field to the time you where the top dude in it or (most senior level/top information, experience dog in it)
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2013
  11. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    Here is an interesting retrofit, I was contacted to do in 2007.
    I recruited a family member who had locomotive experience and we both carried out an electric dynamic braking retro-fit (DC traction motors) to a couple of old Locomotives that had been used in the plains of Ohio, and were required to traverse the Canadian Rockies, so the air brakes were not sufficient.
    For this we were supplied the drawings by CPR.
    Max.

    After Painting:
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2013
  12. MaxHeadRoom

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    Often the beginning usually requires an apprenticeship or similar training in the field or area you are interested in, once this attained, then you can start to pursue a branch off field that you may be more interested in as a career.
    For example, an electrical apprentice may start out in installation work and then go on to Industrial electronics etc and then this could lead to specialized computer and motion control, it requires some dedication and purpose from the individual.
    There is an old saying that the best thing to invest in to be successful and hopefully make a decent living, is ones self.
    Max.
     
  13. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
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    Yes but I would imagine for more specialized industrial equipment /vehicles you would first have to go to school for auto mechanic or engineering degree. I know one could go to a trade school such as porter and Chester to be come an auto mechanic or a 4 year/university to get an engineering degree. But once you have this you still need to learn the private industrial specific manuals / be trained on them before repairing them.

    So I guess it comes down to what engineers / auto mechanics get the opportunity to be selected to working with particular industry. Can any great engineer / mechanic that has a lot of experience on cars or other relatively similar skill sets for the industry get in if they want to. I would imagine it is how security clearance is given out that defines who gets in and out? Or at least who gets to read the manuals / be trained on them (which is a lot different then having the ability to go to school to work on that particular industry based vehicle) ---> you have less choices



    What do you mean by the abbrv. CPR
    And who made the parts / payed for the parts needed I would imagine very expensive. As well as the tools required where they specialized or home automotive based?

    You had no OEM manual to these locomotive vehicles ?

    And the locomotive guy that you recruited what degree/certification/qualifications did he have for CPR allowing you guys to work on the vehicles. I.e you and him must have had qualifications/certifications to work on these not just you said you could do it or had some passed experience in the work. I don't think that would fly very well when it comes to expenses and safety of uses of the vehicle after it is fixed
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2013
  14. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
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    Actually I see enough people with farming equipment I am going to make it a point to ask them how they get there equipment/vehicles repaired. And maybe the manuals / oem manuals some one at an agway would sell them or at least know where you can get them.

    Most of the farming vehicles I can get the oem online but curious also if there is any experienced farmers on this forum that know what the top makers in farming equipment are. For an analogy it would be for networking to some extent cisco 75/80% ish , juniper 10%, hp 5%, others 5%. Is there something similar for farming makers.
    Sort of like the big 3 car manufactures ...etc
    FarmAll looks like one but not sure what percentage of farming equipment is from that maker , and the other big ones ...ie. a percent break down. I know things change over the years so if to difficult then stick with currently
     
  15. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    CPR = Canadian Pacific Railway.
    We had the original GM manuals and were supplied the GM dynamic braking instrumentation and equipment necessary to implement the retro-fit.
    The equipment had to be integrated into the existing wiring and then tested.
    We supplied our own tools and equipment which were typically used by Electrical and Electronic Technical personnel.
    The relative of mine had many years as a Locomotive Technician in the maintenance and rebuilding of wrecked Loco's etc, prior to that he was an Electrician.
    I have many years in both Electrical and Industrial Electronic Control.
    Max.
     
  16. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
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    really , wondering how he went from electricity to loco mechanics.
    wonder how he was let into the CPR or why CPR chose him.
    Not to doubt his skills just seem to me they would take a mechanic / mechanical engineer over an electric one. Are we dealing with engines or motors ?

    Just kind of curious what it took him to get from electrical to loco i.e what certification/course/training and how long.
     
  17. loosewire

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 25, 2008
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    They keep the trains rolling with preventive maintenance, they have rail yards that

    do change outs. They can change the wheels on a fully loaded rail car in one half

    hour. The engines get changes out ,not a lot of testing for the guys that been

    around a long time. Did you know that they spray grit on the metal wheels for

    braking in the mountians. Its a lot about operating heavy equipment designed for

    each repair.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2013
  18. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

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    All modern diesel electric locomotives use traction motors, one on each wheel, they were Brushed DC at one time, (as in the one we retrofitted), now they are electronically commutated 3 phase AC.
    Hence this requires someone with Electrical trouble shooting skills, also the general wiring an control systems on modern Loco's is quite extensive.
    My relative was hired on his merits and had upgrade training to enable the Locomotive servicing.
    On the subject of wheel change outs, on rolling stock this is done on a change out basis, it is too time intensive to do this on a Locomotive Unit, so the loco is driven over an in-floor profiling lathe that comes up out of the floor and re-profiles each wheel while it is still on the locomotive.
    http://www.atlasrail.com.au/uploads/61/tandem_under_floor_wheel_lathe.JPG
    Max.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2013
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