Transformer wire question

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by cncfan, Nov 20, 2010.

  1. cncfan

    Thread Starter New Member

    Sep 20, 2010
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    I have no real knowledge of electronics’s , my only experience is back in the Heathkit days I build a number of their kits from a simple digital clock to a 25inch color TV they had. What little I picked up back then has left me too many years ago. Well fast forward many many years and I came across a article in the Silicon Chip magazine on building an Ultrasonic cleaner. Thought it would be an interesting kit to build as the cost for a commercial unit of any size is more than I want to spend.


    I started sourcing the parts needed and came across this reference to what wire is used to wrap the transformer.


    “Then wind the primaries, using 14 x 0.20mm or 14 x 0.18mm figure-8 cable - Bifilar winding...."


    I googled “figure 8 wire” and saw reference to what I know as zipcord/speaker wire/extension cord. Also the reference “14 x .20mm or 14 x .18mm” has confused me a bit.



    After checking a few different sizes of zip/speaker wire I had on hand, none of it come close to any of these parameters. Back to google and still not finding the answer I was looking for.


    I would much appreciate someone explaining to me just what they are referring to when they say figure-8 wire, 14 x .20mm. If you could point me to a site on the internet that carries it I would also appreciate it.


    The article says there is at least 900v on the transformer so I would like to get this right and hopefully reduce my chance of seeing smoke when I plug it in.


    Any input welcome, thanks
     
  2. retched

    AAC Fanatic!

    Dec 5, 2009
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    I would just like to add that I have no clue.

    Is it 14 strands of .2 mm wire?

    14 gauge is 2mm...

    24 gauge is .202mm

    Are they requesting 14 loops of .2mm bi-filar ?

    I dont know. Bring on the big guns.

    Can you give us the link to the build?
     
  3. SgtWookie

    Expert

    Jul 17, 2007
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    OK, let's first translate the metric to AWG standards.
    0.20mm is roughly AWG-32.
    0.18mm is roughly AWG-33.
    14mm is just over 0.551".

    "bifilar" simply means two insulated conductors twisted together, like twisted pairs in CAT-5 cable, only like magnet wire. However, CAT-5 cable wires may not be suitable for your project, as it is usually AWG-24 (0.511mm) to AWG-26 (0.404mm) wire; too large.

    If you're desperate and in the USA, Radio Shack stores stock magnet wire in 3-spool sets, the smallest gauge is AWG-30. Link:
    http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2036277
    The AWG-30 is a bit oversize at 0.254mm, but it might just work - I don't know, I don't have the article you're referring to.

    It would be interesting to see; I could use an ultrasonic cleaner.
     
  4. SgtWookie

    Expert

    Jul 17, 2007
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    I can see that. :)

    BZZZZT! Wrong. 1.628mm; rounded off it's 1.6mm.

    BZZZZZT!!! Wrong again. AWG-24 is 0.511mm; or 0.5mm rounded.
     
  5. retched

    AAC Fanatic!

    Dec 5, 2009
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    GEEZ! How did I screw that up so bad?


    [ed]
    I know how I screwed up that bad.. I was looking at AREA..not diameter.
    [/ed]
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2010
  6. SgtWookie

    Expert

    Jul 17, 2007
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    Good, glad you figured out where you were going wrong. I thought I was going to go broke buying batteries for my cattle prod...
     
  7. retched

    AAC Fanatic!

    Dec 5, 2009
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    Tell me about it... My wife* is going to wonder where these burns on my butt came from.

    "Honey! Im SORRY! I was WRONG!"


    * Not married ;)
     
  8. cncfan

    Thread Starter New Member

    Sep 20, 2010
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    Thanks for the quick responses. Below is the URL of the article, I would attache the complete article but it is copyrighted and they have you pay to get the complete information.


    It a total of 8 turns on the bobbin, 4 each way.


    Yep, I'm in the US, Houston area, so I will make a trip to RS.


    http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_112072/article.html


    Thanks again for the info, much appreciated.
    George
     
  9. SgtWookie

    Expert

    Jul 17, 2007
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    George,
    I have no clue what might be available in your immediate area, but Bill_Marsden might. He's not exactly local (Dallas), but he's in TX.

    There are a few suppliers in Dallas that might have just what you need, like Tanners, BG Micro, and Mouser (a very large supplier). I don't have a clue what might be in Houston.
     
  10. Kermit2

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 5, 2010
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    Frye's electronics is in Houston. If Radio Shack doesn't have it Frye's will. Two locations, I-45 North near 610, and Sugar Land @ West Airport Rd.
     
  11. mbohuntr

    Active Member

    Apr 6, 2009
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    I just choked on my coffee...LMAO!:D
     
  12. retched

    AAC Fanatic!

    Dec 5, 2009
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    See! There is a good reason not to edit your posts!

    Not choking you...but the laughing part ;)
     
  13. AlexR

    Well-Known Member

    Jan 16, 2008
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    I haven't seen the article but 14/.2 is common medium duty hook-up wire, 14 strands of .2mm wire in pvc insulation (or in inches 14/.0076) not that I've ever seen it in figure 8 configuration but I would imagine that 2 wires laid side by side would work as well.
     
  14. SgtWookie

    Expert

    Jul 17, 2007
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    Interesting angle, AlexR - I hadn't thought of that.

    Since we don't know what's in the article, it's pretty tough to figure out what they're really talking about. If we had some kind of idea of what current flow they were expecting, we could make a lot better guess.
     
  15. cncfan

    Thread Starter New Member

    Sep 20, 2010
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    Kermit2, thanks for reminding me of Frye's, since retirement I'm no longer near either of their stores, will have to make a trip to their i-45 610 location.


    AlexR, thanks for the additional info, have a few rolls of hookup wire somewhere around here, will check to see if the count and size is right.


    SgtWookie, sent you a PM


    Thanks again for the suggestions/ideas
     
  16. debe

    Well-Known Member

    Sep 21, 2010
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    heres a pic of the T/F winding & a piece of fig8 cable not quite the corect size its .18mm x about 23 strands Silicon Chip had 2 ultrasonic kits one was a cleaner the other a few months later was a Ultrasonic antifouling for boats.
     
  17. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
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    The link shows using essentially speaker wire for the heavier gauge wires.

    For better wire for the find windings, get wire from a motor shop or online seller of "Magnet Wire". The insulation on the Radio Shack 3 pack of "Magnet Wire" tends to crack/break easily, and doesn't withstand heat or vibration very well, but it will work in a pinch.
     
  18. debe

    Well-Known Member

    Sep 21, 2010
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    what they are actually using for the primary windings is plastic coated 240v frigure of 8 cable.
     
  19. SgtWookie

    Expert

    Jul 17, 2007
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    I'm very surprised they recommended such a configuration. "Zip cord" should not be used for winding transformers; magnet wire should be used instead.
     
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