Toggle Switch Terminology

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by jvcmarine, Oct 14, 2013.

  1. jvcmarine

    jvcmarine Thread Starter New Member

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    I know I'm getting old when I can't recall basic stuff, or maybe I'm just a dumb ass!

    Looking at toggle switches.

    DPDT. I assume this switch would have six contacts and have three detente positions, down, middle up, or left, middle right. LOL.

    Below are the descriptions from the Carling data sheet.


    I have two questions:

    1: What is the difference between Off and None.
    2: What do the parenthesis mean.
    3:Why don't they provide a switch schematic.
    ok I know that's three.



    ON-NONE-OFF

    (ON)-NONE-OFF

    ON-NONE-(OFF)

    ON-NONE-ON

    ON-NONE-(ON)

    ON-OFF-ON

    ON-OFF-(ON)


    (ON-OFF-(ON)
  2. #12

    #12 AAC Fanatic!

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    The parenthesis means momentary.
    Who knows what, "none" means?
  3. MaxHeadRoom

    MaxHeadRoom Well-Known Member

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    DPDT = 4 contacts, and if not specified 'Center Off' then only two positions.

    Never seen most of those descriptions, I am assuming the NONE means centre off?
    Max.
  4. WBahn

    WBahn AAC Fanatic!

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    It means there is no center position at all, as opposed to OFF, which means that there is a stable center position in which neither of the circuits is connected.

    So a typical SPDT switch used for a stairwell light would be ON-None-ON.
  5. MaxHeadRoom

    MaxHeadRoom Well-Known Member

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    That seems a bit redundant specifying NONE for a position that does not exist?
    I am used to SPDT - Centre Off, or ON-OFF-ON for a three position switch.
    If simply SPDT then this would automatically be assumed as a two position switch?
    Max.
  6. WBahn

    WBahn AAC Fanatic!

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    If those are the options listed specifically for a DPDT switch, then I don't have any idea what something like ON-None-OFF would mean. It's a double throw switch, which means there needs to be two "ON" states in there somewhere. So the first three listings don't make sense to me.

    Other possibilities, though probably custom order, would be something like

    ON-ON-(OFF)

    meaning that the one side and the center positions connect the common pole to the two circuits and that the other side is a momentary that disconnects both circuit but that returns to the center ON position when released.
  7. MrChips

    MrChips Moderator Staff Member

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    SPST OFF-None-ON
    SPDT ON-None-ON
    SPDT-Center Off ON-OFF-ON

    Any (ON) means it is momentary, i.e. spring return to previous position when released.

    For example,
    (ON)-OFF-(ON) is a SPDT that returns to centre OFF when pushed to either side and released.
    Sensacell likes this.
  8. WBahn

    WBahn AAC Fanatic!

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    Using the None simply makes it so that data sheet tables can be made in a consistent way. For instance:

    Option Code Left Center Right
    A3 ON OFF ON
    B7 (ON) OFF ON
    B9 ON NONE ON
    C1 (ON) ON (OFF)


    It also allows unambiguous encoding in a parts database.
  9. MaxHeadRoom

    MaxHeadRoom Well-Known Member

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    Then what would a maintained SPDT centre off be, in post #5 the ON-OFF-ON would be maintained, if not it would be labeled Momentary. ?
    It seems to me those descriptions by the OP is confusing and using descriptions that vary from the industry norm, which usually are self explanatory?
    Max.
  10. WBahn

    WBahn AAC Fanatic!

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    How do you know this is a single pole switch and not a double pole or even an 8-throw switch?

    This encoding tells you how many throws there are, but nothing about how many poles.

    It also doesn't given any hint about make-before-break conditions designed into the switch. I've seen a simple encoding that included that but can't recall for sure exactly what it was. I believe it just an added a '+' or '-' between adjacent positions with a '+' meaning make-before-break and a '-' meaning break-before-make. Either could be used if the adjacent is an OFF but I think the '-' was used as a default.

    So something like

    (ON)+ON-OFF

    meant that the two adjacent ON positions, the extreme one of which was momentary, and that a make-before-break action joined them.

    Using this encoding, a two position (no center position) SPDT switch with make-before-break would appear as

    ON+NONE+ON

    while the same switch with break-before-make would appear as

    ON-NONE-ON
  11. jvcmarine

    jvcmarine Thread Starter New Member

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    I guess I am not quite the DA I thought I was,,, for cripes sake, why can't they post a relevant schematic,, I don't ever remember seeing a data sheet schema like this thirty years ago. Crikey, I am just gonna order every GD iteration and figure it out for me selfs!

    I will post my findings.
  12. MrChips

    MrChips Moderator Staff Member

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    Why the hassle? Tell us what you want and we will say which one to order.
  13. WBahn

    WBahn AAC Fanatic!

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    Somewhere they are going to have an explanation/legend of their notation. That will be your Rosetta Stone.
  14. jvcmarine

    jvcmarine Thread Starter New Member

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    Hey WBahn, yes I did find an explanation for (), at the very bottom of some of their sheets under Notes: () means momentary function.
    I like Carling switches but was frustrated by their lousy data sheets.

    Here is a real data sheet

    click on the specs tab:

    http://sensing.honeywell.com/index.php?ci_id=3108&la_id=1&pr_id=37437

    no guess work here. LOL

    This is a great group and I thank all who have responded, I really enjoy the helpful spirit of this group, having endured the demise of some of my favorite newsgroups over the years, watching mindful informational exchange within a group fester into a stagnant festering cesspool of discourse. / RAT and AGA.;
    I have lurked here for quite some time and admire the intelect of this fine group.

    Keep on keeping on,, an Git Er Done.

    Vin

    J. Vincent Collins
    Tube guy relearning SS
  15. MaxHeadRoom

    MaxHeadRoom Well-Known Member

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    Looking through their catalog I agree even the pages that post a diagram or a schematic are not at all obvious, their description methods leaves a lot to be deiisred!
    Max.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  16. WBahn

    WBahn AAC Fanatic!

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    This is something I have never understood. You are in the business of selling widgets. Why on Earth would you not put some serious effort into making sure that people that are thinking of buying widgets are going to find learning about your widget offerings pleasant and informative?

    Remember the old Omega catalogs? Those things were all but textbooks in name! I learned so much about anything that was even remotely related to a product they sold. And the very natural inclination was to purchase their stuff first just because you felt so good about your experiences with their tech literature.
  17. MaxHeadRoom

    MaxHeadRoom Well-Known Member

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    Still got-em!.
    Reluctant to throw them out now.
    Max.
  18. MrChips

    MrChips Moderator Staff Member

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    The Omega catalog sits right beside the CRC Handbook.
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