Time/ Space: from Hawking back to Einstein / Minkowski.

Discussion in 'Physics' started by socratus, Jun 25, 2015.

  1. socratus

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 26, 2012
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    Time/ Space: from Hawking back to Einstein / Minkowski.
    ==…
    a)Stephen Hawking, book: "The theory of everything. Fifthlecture."
    " . . . . the universe must have a beginning, and that this beginning
    must be described in terms of quantum theory."
    "When one goes back to the real time in which we live, however,
    there will still appear to be singularities. The poor astronaut who falls
    into a black hole . . . . could live in imaginary time, that he would
    encounter no singularities."
    "This might suggest that the so-called imaginary time is really the
    fundamental time,
    and that we call real time is something we create
    just in our minds. In real time, the universe has a beginning and
    an end at singularities that form a boundary to space-time and at which
    the laws of science break down. But in imaginary time, there are
    no singularities or boundaries. So maybe what we call imaginary time
    is really more basic,
    and what we call real time is justan idea that we
    invent to help us describe what we think the universe is like."
    / page 91/
    So.
    The real time in which we live has singularities.
    But imaginary time without singularities or boundaries " is really the
    fundamental time", " is really more basic. "


    b)Einstein /Minkowski.
    It was Einstein who first in 1905 introduced imaginary time in SRT.
    In 1908 Minkowski changed imaginary time into 4D and said:
    “ Henceforth, space by itself, and time by itself, are doomed to fade away
    into mere shadows, and only a kind of union of the two
    will preserve an independent reality.”
    So.
    " space by itself, and time by itself"the real space andtime in which
    we liveare "shadows" . . . ." and only a kind of union of the two
    ( on the basis ofimaginary time)will preserve an independent reality.” ==..
    My solution.
    An imaginary time means Eternal Time.
    The black hole is eternal zero vacuum (T=0K) continuum.
    The 4D is eternal zero vacuum (T=0K) continuum.
    Space by itself (gravity-space)and Time (gravity-time) by itself
    are secondary: made out from the eternal zero vacuum (T=0K)
    through singularity / vacuum fluctuation-transformation.
    ===…
    Best wishes.
    Israel Sadovnik Socratus
    ==,
     
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  2. nsaspook

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    I'm a believer in Hammer-Time.

     
  3. MrAl

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    Jun 17, 2014
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    Hi,

    I have thought about these things for years time and again, and discussed with people about the possibilities. The possibilities could be endless for example because there could be more than one solution even though we'd like to think everything is simple such that we can one day understand everything, and i say possibilities because that is all that they are. Whenever a new idea comes about it has to be proven or else it is just another fantasy. It is fun to dream sometimes though.
     
  4. BR-549

    Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2013
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    Or, there is only one possibility and no others.

    This possibility manifests itself as reality.

    This reality follows simple rules.

    There is no randomness or probability.

    Reality has to obey law, it has no choice or other option.

    Reality can only exist in this fashion.

    There is only one solution.
     
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  5. Wendy

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    Mar 24, 2008
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    Quantum Mechanics has rules, true enough, but they involve probabilities. The evidence is pretty overwhelming for those who care to read and take note.
     
  6. studiot

    AAC Fanatic!

    Nov 9, 2007
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    Since you suggest these don't exist, could you define either so that if I ever came across either I could compare it with your definition?
     
  7. socratus

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    Mar 26, 2012
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    An imaginary time means a situation of absence of Time.
    The situation of absence time means Eternal condition.
    The Eternal condition belongs to Infinite zero vacuum: T=0K.
    =========== ===
    A black hole has temperature of only one ten-millionth
    of a degree above absolute zero. In 1973 the temperature
    of the cosmic microwave radiation was about 2,7 degrees
    above T=0K. If the universe is destined to go on expanding
    forever then the temperature will eventually decrease to less
    than that of black hole . . . to zero: T=0K.
    So.
    There are three basic similarities between black hole and zero vacuum:
    a) both have imaginary time
    b) both have the same temperature
    c) both can emit radiation
    Therefore black hole is zero vacuum.
    =============..
     
  8. Wendy

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    Mar 24, 2008
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    Actually black holes have temperatures. They radiate according to their mass. A small black hole (in theory) explodes as it dissipates its remaining mass.
     
  9. socratus

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    Mar 26, 2012
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    Wikipedia:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_thermodynamics
    Quote:
    Interpretation of the laws
    The four laws of black hole mechanics suggest that one should identify
    the surface gravity of a black hole with temperature and the area
    of the event horizon with entropy, at least up to some multiplicative
    constants.
    If one only considers black holes classically, then they have zero
    temperature and, by the no hair theorem, zero entropy, and the laws
    of black hole mechanics remain an analogy.
    However, when quantum mechanical effects are taken into account,
    one finds that black holes emit thermal radiation (Hawking radiation)
    at a temperature.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_thermodynamics
    ====…

    Correct. It means that from the Classical point of view
    black hole is zero vacuum T=0K. It means that all the fields,
    such as the gravitational field and electromagnetic field have to be zero.
    Then it seems that the Universe must to be a dead continuum.
    But . . . . .
    But thanks to " The Second law of thermodynamics"/ Entropy
    the infinite zero vacuum continuum (T=0K) can somehow emit
    "Virtual particles" which somehow can create the Material Universe.
    ==============…
    P.S.
    1.) Henry Poincare named the conception of "entropy "
    as a " surprising abstract ".
    2.) Lev Landau (the Nobel Prize in Physics 1962) wrote:
    " A question about the physical basis of the
    entropy monotonous increasing law remains open ".
    3.) Wilhelm Ostwald (the Nobel Prize in Chemistry 1909 ) said :
    " the entropy is only a shadow of energy".
    4.) The famous mathematician John von Neumann said to
    "the father of information theory" Claude Shannon:
    " Name it "entropy" then in discussions
    you will receive solid advantage, because
    nobody knows, what "entropy" basically is ".
    =======================…
     
  10. Wendy

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    Mar 24, 2008
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    But classic physics is as dead as the flat Earth theory. Time to use some new theories.
     
  11. socratus

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    Mar 26, 2012
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    The Classical / Newtonian physics is as correct as the Quantum theory.
     
  12. Wendy

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    Uh, no. It is not. Time Dialation, for one. Particle physics, for another. It has been walked away from as a viable theory. It is useful for the approximations it offers, but they are just that.

    Cracks in that theory started appearing when they maped out the orbit of the planet Mercury, around 100 years ago.
     
  13. nsaspook

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    Classical / Newtonian physics like Classical electrodynamics just can't explain completely how the universe functions. Wanting it to be that way just doesn't work when easy to prove experiments say otherwise.

    Saying current flow in a metal conductor is the flow of free electrons is an example. The “Drude” free electron theory just doesn't work to explain why we can have a positive Hall coefficient (there are only electrons moving in the same average direction both in the case of electron or hole conductivity) in metals like cadmium or tungsten but the effect is of positive charge carriers. If the Hall coefficient was solely dependent on the charge of the carrier, 'hole flow' could only be negative but its not so there must be something deeper. That something deeper is modern quantum mechanical theory.
    http://courses.washington.edu/phys431/hall_effect/hall_effect.pdf
    http://www.pha.jhu.edu/courses/173_308/SampleLabs/Hall Effect_Caravelli1.pdf
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2015
  14. socratus

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    Mar 26, 2012
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    All laws of physics are limited and according to QT
    when they go to the limit all physical parameters (space,
    time, energy, mass . . . ) disappear.
    This limit according to QT is called "vacuum".
    But these physical parameters can be reborn through
    "vacuum fluctuation/transformation"
    What can be done with this data mining?
    ===============..
     
  15. Wendy

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    Mar 24, 2008
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    And tou point is?

    The data mining comment made no sense to me.
     
  16. nsaspook

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  17. socratus

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  18. nsaspook

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    Including things like time travel and FTL communication if Classical / Newtonian physics could explain everything.
     
  19. Wendy

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    Quantum entanglement?
     
  20. BR-549

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    Sep 22, 2013
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    The physical process of energy quantization proves that length and time are constant.

    The same process shows that there is no mass.

    Mass is not fundamental, it's only apparent.

    Mass is rotational resonance.

    All force and all energy is transferred thru rotational resonance.
     
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