One mans utopia is another mans nation of boredom...

I, even if healthy, would desire to have a doctor available for those times when accident or acts of nature cause injury...

Also barter is no different than money exchange. One uses the items themselves and the other uses symbols of value that are exchanged for the items.

The first three are called theft, feudalism, socialism, and other ultimately failed systems.

It is only under the last system, called "capitalism," where even the poorest are sought after to be served and made happy as "consumers."

Money is a vital part of the equation.

But where you gonna find a capitalist gov? Capitalism failed like socialism and all the rest. The fact is all gov's will start ok then get more and more corrupt till a revolution. Then we reset it all. America used to be a Capitalist gov but for the past 6 years its actually a Fascist gov. where the gov and corp's work together. So right now were actually witnessing the change of our gov at its core being. Wait till you see what this world looks like in 2020. Its gonna be great!

 

Guess we (the world) need to start over again coz once again as stated above we have reached the peak of the civilization. but looks like it a cycle everytime we reach the peak we start over again and reach the peak the very same way we did previously. Thus equation without solution!

Remind me of my discussion with one of my friends...I was saying I think cellphone technology has reached its peak, IMO, coz I was comparing new features added on iPhone 6 and Samsung S4...I think the features added are unnecessary and I think they are on a dead end road with *new* features...in 2-3 years time from now I think they will be completed stuck! but I was impressed with the *wireless charging* of the latest Nokia. Oops I think I got a lil out of the topic...lol. Bottom line is we have reached the peak everywhere!

 

World sounds great but a world with no strippers is not world for me! I guess yah just gotta take the good with the bad.

LOL...Guess so too! where will we spend all the $1 on then?

 

Guess we (the world) need to start over again...

No Eric. The world is fine. The problem is those who think they know better than everyone else how each individual should run their own lives.

These "maxima" are not only local in time, but geography as well. The economy of the US in general stinks right now, and has for quite a number of years. But the economy in North Dakota is *booming*. Ask yourself if *freedom* has absolutely anything to do with what is happening in ND....and then look carefully if there is anyone out there who is trying to curb ND's freedom to be prosperous...

 

We all live like kings of the past today...with riches even they hardly imagined.

I agree. We live this way because, #1 because we have found ways to do things more efficiently, and #2 We have figured out how to live on borrowed fortune and energy from the future.

If not for the transient personalities that arise from time to time who wish to convince us that things are too good, and we would be better off if we were to impoverish ourselves, just a little bit -- and for the good of all, of course -- those local down trends could be attenuated quite a bit.

No Eric. The world is fine. The problem is those who think they know better than everyone else how each individual should run their own lives.

I don't recall trying to convince anyone to impoverish themselves. That doesn't seem like a point I'd try to make. That would imply that I think there's hope, which I don't. I say, enjoy it while you can, but gain the skills now that you're going to need when party is over. Or don't, I don't really care. The population has to come down, that means people are going to die; so long as it isn't my family, I don't care who it is.

 

These "maxima" are not only local in time, but geography as well. The economy of the US in general stinks right now, and has for quite a number of years. But the economy in North Dakota is *booming*. Ask yourself if *freedom* has absolutely anything to do with what is happening in ND....and then look carefully if there is anyone out there who is trying to curb ND's freedom to be prosperous...

And why do you think that ND survived the 2008 financial crisis?

 

... That would imply that I think there's hope, which I don't.

I don't either!

I say, enjoy it while you can, but gain the skills now that you're going to need when party is over.

True that!

...people are going to die; so long as it isn't my family, I don't care who it is.

lol not too kind but at least you speak your mind honestly!

 

I agree. We live this way because, #1 because we have found ways to do things more efficiently, and #2 We have figured out how to live on borrowed fortune and energy from the future.

Energy cannot be borrowed...only produced and consumed in the here and now. And history is replete with those who thought, at their time, that the earth just simply could not sustain even one more individual. I've always been an optimist...I don't believe there will ever be a "peak" anything...and I will continue not to believe that until someone shows me that there was a peak something that then wasn't replaced equally and more cheaply with something else.

As far as 'borrowed' fortune...most individuals cannot, for an indefinite period of time, pretend to live on more than they earn. It always catches up. Governments appear to, simply because they have the ability to print money. But this does not create value...it only lessens the value of those who worked hard and saved their money. It's just an invisible tax (or, in the case of Cyprus, not so invisible) -- for our own good, of course!

I don't recall trying to convince anyone to impoverish themselves.

Funny how you took that comment personally (projection, anyone?). I wasn't even thinking of you when I wrote it. We all have fantasies of how perfect the world could be *if only* we were in charge of it. My fear is of those who actually have the power to act upon such thoughts!

That doesn't seem like a point I'd try to make. That would imply that I think there's hope, which I don't.

I have not reached this level of cynicism yet.

I say, enjoy it while you can, but gain the skills now that you're going to need when party is over. Or don't, I don't really care. The population has to come down, that means people are going to die; so long as it isn't my family, I don't care who it is.

I prefer Ayn Rand's version:

"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

 

And why do you think that ND survived the 2008 financial crisis?

Well, that's a heck of a non sequitur! I wasn't aware that there were any states that *did not* survive the 2008 financial crises...

 

Energy cannot be borrowed...only produced and consumed in the here and now.

Which is only slightly at odds with "Energy cannot be created or destroyed."

I don't believe there will ever be a "peak" anything...

So then you believe that all things exist in infinite supply?

and I will continue not to believe that until someone shows me that there was a peak something that then wasn't replaced equally and more cheaply with something else.

Helium?

 

Okaaaay....so we're going to get pedantic now...

Which is only slightly at odds with "Energy cannot be created or destroyed."

Do you *really* think I was speaking in such a context??? Fine, then I shall refute your exact statement:

Energy/Matter *was* created at the big bang. Gravity is the blank check against which that energy/matter was created. Gravity will one day call in all its loans, and everything will yet again cease to exist. Therefore, no matter (no pun!) what we do, we cannot avoid the inevitable. Why should we care about anything???

So then you believe that all things exist in infinite supply?

Until you make an attempt to understand what I wrote, and the context in which I wrote it, I refuse to answer this question.

Helium?

Last I checked, helium was still quite available (and at a price far lower than 100 years ago) at the party store for filling my daughter's birthday party balloons. In addition, the sun is still converting 600 million tons of hydrogen into helium every second. Perhaps you wish to tell me that hydrogen is *also* a limited resource?

 

Well, that's a heck of a non sequitur! I wasn't aware that there were any states that *did not* survive the 2008 financial crises...

Ok, sorry. So why is ND doing so well in this financial climate?

 

Ok, sorry. So why is ND doing so well in this financial climate?

Because they are producing *energy* -- the life-blood of progress -- and *lots* of it. More importantly, they are *free* to do so, for now...

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/energy-ticker/2013/03/18/north-dakotas-oil-production-reaches-record/

Unfortunately, like all tall poppies...they'll eventually be cut down to size. And we'll all be poorer for it.

BTW, the subtext of your question is that the continuing rotten economies elsewhere are due to the banking crises of 2008. That is soooo five years ago. If the banking crises caused *today's* bad economy, then why do the banks have so much money?

 

Because they are producing *energy* -- the life-blood of progress -- and *lots* of it. More importantly, they are *free* to do so, for now...

Look into the Bank of North Dakota. This a state bank which lends money to itself. All interest goes back to the state bank and not to a priviate bank such as the Federal Reserve.

BTW, the subtext of your question is that the continuing rotten economies elsewhere are due to the banking crises of 2008. That is soooo five years ago. If the banking crises caused *today's* bad economy, then why do the banks have so much money?

The banks have so much money because instead of going bankrupt where they should have been five years ago, they have been bailed out with public money, i.e. charged to you and me. You and me and every tax payer and working person are paying to keep the banks afloat.

 

We live this way because, #1 because we have found ways to do things more efficiently, and #2 We have figured out how to live on borrowed fortune and energy from the future.

I'm with you 100%. We're digging up a few hundred million years worth of fossil fuel to run this place, and it can't last forever. When that bank drys up, there won't be enough living to bury all the dead people.

Edit: and then there is all that about putting the CO2 back into the atmosphere.

 

you are aware that most civilizations collapsed because they could not deal with climate change? Think we are better prepared? Anyway, why worry? we are poisoning our fresh water supplies on all continents, and there is nothing anyone is willing to do about it, the one resource that is absolutely essential to survival

 

you are aware that most civilizations collapsed because they could not deal with climate change? ...

Sorry, but that's a completely ridiculous statement!

Many civilisations were conquered and dismantled, some simply evolved into different civilisations, and some collapsed because of economic issues and/or poor resource management.

I can't think of a single civilisation that collapsed because of "climate change".

Who were you thinking of, and how exactly did the climate change during their time of rule?

 

Look into the Bank of North Dakota. This a state bank which lends money to itself. All interest goes back to the state bank and not to a priviate bank such as the Federal Reserve.

Ahhh....so let me try to understand your point:

North Dakota has a state owned bank;
North Dakota is prosperous;
ergo state owned banks cause prosperity.

I can even generalize it:

*All* states with state owned banks are prosperous. Therefore, state owned banks cause prosperity.

You logic is impeccable. I simply cannot refute it.

Eric, the answer to your original post has been found. The perfect world can be had simply by nationalizing (state-izing?) all private banks. While we're at it, let's just nationalize *everything*. If it's good for the banks...

The banks have so much money because instead of going bankrupt where they should have been five years ago, they have been bailed out with public money, i.e. charged to you and me. You and me and every tax payer and working person are paying to keep the banks afloat.

Your are correct in so far as they were (unjustly) bailed out five years ago. But that wasn't my point. What happened five years ago has little to do with the bad economy of today.

 

you are aware that most civilizations collapsed because they could not deal with climate change? ...

I'm going to have a drink now...

 

Ahhh....so let me try to understand your point:

North Dakota has a state owned bank;
North Dakota is prosperous;
ergo state owned banks cause prosperity.

I can even generalize it:

*All* states with state owned banks are prosperous. Therefore, state owned banks cause prosperity.

You logic is impeccable. I simply cannot refute it.

Your non sequitur is even more incredible than mine.