The Extinction of Animal and Plant Species

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justtrying

Joined Mar 9, 2011
439
just want to add to what was already mentioned - climate does change naturally. Human industrial practices are resulting in poisoned water columns, polluted air and other effects yet to be felt. We are in for one rough ride. Not caring for other species is one thing, but where are we in terms of even taking care of our own fellow beings? Mining, plastics, fertilizer, soil depletion...

p.s. today BC decides if it is Enbridge or LNG...
 

Brownout

Joined Jan 10, 2012
2,390
For our conservation minded friends, Discovery starts a seven part series titled "North America" on Sunday. It's a documentary about the natural science of the North American continent which took 5 years to make. It should be well worth the time to watch.
 

tracecom

Joined Apr 16, 2010
3,944
It seems a little ironic that we let forests burn to the ground because "that's nature's way," and yet we get all worked up over snail darters. As far as I can tell, humans are part of nature, too...aren't we?
 

THE_RB

Joined Feb 11, 2008
5,438
Sounds like we shouldn't care at all. There are however many effects caused by human activity that could have and should have been avoided, for our own good.

Of course, species come and go. But we are intelligent enough to be the one that could live here for many many years to come. If we consider us just another species (=animal), well then there is indeed no reason to change anything, no problem with oil spills, air pollution, overpopulation and connected problems. Everything is self-regulating. But I'd prefer not to be the one that suffers the consequences.
...
Please understand, I do CARE about the environment. Technically I'm a "greenie" by many caring lifestyle choices; I drive a motorcycle (infrequently) and not a car, to have a much lower greenhouse effect, I work from home again to reduce travel inefficiencies etc, grow some food, and make a lot of personal choices to have a low footprint on the environment. So I'm one of the "good" people. :)

And I agree with the bulk of your post and other posts here, that we (as modern man) are impacting the environment. However I'm against the hardcore "brick wall" type mentality that EVERY change is bad, that EVERY change/bad thing is man's fault, that EVERYthing is "climate change" which is bad, that EVERYthing is extreme and clearly black and white.

A good, healthy approach to the environment is a lot more open-minded and unbiased.

People in extreme positions usually have issues or agendas, which would be fine if they were just "that weirdo that lives down the road" but unfortunately many of these extreme people are the ones making news, writing blogs, doing govt white papers etc.
 

loosewire

Joined Apr 25, 2008
1,686
North and South pole melting Ice is hard to debate ,something is happening when

you have pictures of the same area change. For years you depend on the winter

renewal of ice packs. A picture is worth a thousand words. Either the the news

that is 24/7 shows an Increase in weird weather in all areas. You be the judge.
 

tracecom

Joined Apr 16, 2010
3,944
The climate is changing; that's a fact. But the climate has been changing for as long as we have any way of researching it. The question is why.

Species are becoming extinct; that's a fact. Passenger pigeons were apparently eliminated by humans; dinosaurs were not. (I don't miss either one.)

The Pacific Gyre looks terrible to me and seems to be the worst possible example of human pollution. Last week I fished in the Gulf of Mexico in the midst of some school buses that were hauled out there and sunk. The fish apparently like living in a junkyard.

I watch the birds on my feeder outside the breakfast room window. When I buy the cheaper bird feed, the English sparrows that sit on the feeder won't eat some of the seed; they rake it out on the ground in order to get to the sunflower seeds they prefer. It looks like pollution and waste, but the doves that feed on the ground underneath the feeder disagree.

My point with this tripe is the same as I have tried to make before. There is so much that we don't know compared to what we do know, that we should be careful not to seize on partial information, and close our minds to opinions other than our own.
 

Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
23,415
Then why is it tripe? The point I've often made is if we assume we are not doing the damage and we are, then there is not much we can do about it once the animals are gone. Whereas if it is not use but we make the assumption it is us, then no major damage done.
 

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MrChips

Joined Oct 2, 2009
30,711
If we don't know what harm we could be doing then we should stop doing it because it will be too late by the time we discover the harm we have done.

Humans have the intelligence to recognize when we are headed in the wrong direction. The profit motive makes us behave otherwise and we continue with business as usual.

We pick the low hanging fruit off the tree and it tastes good. So we continue to go after the harder to reach fruit to our own demise.
 

spinnaker

Joined Oct 29, 2009
7,830
It isn't just climate change, pollution is also a big hitter. Occasionally humans back off and a species recovers, such as with the book "Silent Spring".
It has been alleged by many scientists that Carson's book was based on poor science. The banning of DDT has resulted in thousands of painful deaths of humans while returning almost not benefit to the birds it was meant to protect.

There is a two way street on the environment. If there are humans on the earth then there will be an impact, even if all they do is exist. If we want to be bale to care for those humans, feed them, clothe them, tend to their medical needs then an industry is required and an infrastructure to support that industry.This puts additional burden on the environment. But industry breeds wealth with extra income to spend on helping to protest the environment and perhaps even improve it. There area more trees in the US toady than 100 years ago and all because of humans. The caribou in Alaska is the thriving all because of humans. Yes sometimes we do bad but many times we do good.

I would like to challenge anyone that complains about mans impact on the environment to become 100% independent from industry. You would need to move out into the wilds. The only clothes on you back are the ones you make from the wild cotton you found some where. You would have no rifle, ammo, knife or axe. Those were all made in a factory then shipped by truck your location. If you want an axe then you would need to mine the ore yourself, refine then forge the metal.

Modern industry is a wonderful thing and we do need to use it in a responsible manner but operating so responsibly to save some from while other humans suffer is simply irresponsible.

The dominant species has always pushed out the less dominate species. Some species learn to adapt. Humans are to dominate species right now. Recently a pair of bald eagles have mad a home in out city of Pittsburgh. Pushed out by humans a couple of hundred years ago and they are returning now. Smart and strong enough to take advantage of the changed environment.

I wish they would have built their nest of the Rachel Caron Bridge, that would have been so ironic. :)
minate
 

Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
23,415
Yep, and no DDT to weaken their egg shells, so they are reproducing nicely. I do not advocate a return to nature, but humans need to take responsibility for what we are actually doing instead of pretending we have no effect.

The carabou and moose are returning in numbers because we have stopped (mostly) killing wolfs indiscriminately. A lot of the reasons was based on myth (that wolves attack humans).

Just curious, did you read the book?
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
10,045
While Humans are adding carbon and other toxins to the air and environment, it has little to do with global warming. And as far as polar ice sheets, the 'climate' studies ignor one major scientific discipline in their rush to judgement, geology.

For most of the Earths existence there was no ice sheet at the poles. It is only a result of the Ice Ages. And they are now finally coming to a close.
 

GetDeviceInfo

Joined Jun 7, 2009
2,192
The carabou and moose are returning in numbers because we have stopped (mostly) killing wolfs indiscriminately. A lot of the reasons was based on myth (that wolves attack humans).
I don't know Bill. In our neck of the woods, the caribou and moose suffer considerably when wolf numbers increase. And that's promoted by lacing the land with seismic lines which increase a packs mobility.
 

Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
23,415
I was basing this on something I read about the Yellowstone National Park some time ago. Wolves cull the herds, whereas coyotes tended to let the diseased and damaged pack continue to compete with the healthy individuals. They stopped killing the wolves (actually importing some) and the numbers of moose starting rising. I don't know why though (in spite of what I just said).
 
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