As Many As 40 Feared Killed in Oakland Warehouse-Rave Fire
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/12/03/least-9-dead-oakland-warehouse-party-fire/94881696/

Oakland Fire Chief Teresa Deloach Reed told reporters that most of the dead were found on the second floor of the building, but she feared the death toll could rise. She said it took about five hours to put out the blaze in the building, which did not appear to have sprinklers.

At least part of the structure had been partitioned into several artist studios and was packed with furniture, mannequins and other objects. Reed said the building didn’t have a clear exit path.

Fire officials' search of the building was stymied when the roof collapsed. Because of the precarious state of the structure, officials with the coroner’s office were unable to begin recovering bodies until nearly seven hours after the fire struck. The scent of the smoldering building could be detected from blocks away Saturday afternoon.

"One of the issues was that leading up to the second floor there was only one way up and down," Reed told reporters. "It was my understanding that the stairwell was kind of makeshift, that they put it together with pallets."

Look inside this place. It's a wonder anyone made it out alive. Are there no annoying "rules" like fire codes in this city. Stairs made out of pallets, no sprinklers, no fire alarms.
http://www.oaklandghostship.com/

 

Democrats built that.

John

 

Democrats built that.

John

And already modified to meet the new business-friendly building codes the Trump administration wants.

 

It's still better than my shop by a long shot!

 

And already modified to meet the new business-friendly building codes the Trump administration wants.

I'm sure you know that building codes are local, based on the ICC code and this was in California , one of the most regulated states in the nation. The problem with codes is local enforcement. For some reason this fire-trap wasn't condemned long ago, my eye would be on the local inspection office.
http://shop.iccsafe.org/state-and-local-codes/california.html

The International Code Council (ICC) was established in 1994 as a non-profit organization dedicated to developing a single set of comprehensive and coordinated national model construction codes. The founders of the ICC are Building Officials and Code Administrators International, Inc. (BOCA), International Conference of Building Officials (ICBO), and Southern Building Code Congress International, Inc. (SBCCI). Since the early part of the last century, these non-profit organizations developed three separate sets of model codes used throughout the United States. Although regional code development has been effective and responsive to our country’s needs, the time came for a single set of codes. The nation’s three model code groups responded by creating the International Code Council and by developing codes without regional limitations; the International Codes.

 

I'm sure you know that building codes are local, based on the ICC code and this was in California , one of the most regulated states in the nation. The problem with codes is local enforcement. For some reason this fire-trap wasn't condemned long ago, my eye would be on the local inspection office.
http://shop.iccsafe.org/state-and-local-codes/california.html

Obviously, I just couldn't leave the ignorance of post 2 unanswered without a comment of equal but opposite ignorance.

 

Obviously, I just couldn't leave the ignorance of post 2 unanswered without a comment of equal but opposite ignorance.

I wouldn't say they built it but my dollar would be on non-republicans running the local government.
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/Seven...-of-safety-issues-illegal-construction-danger

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/03/oakland-ghost-ship-warehouse-fire-violations

City councilman Noel Gallo, who represents the Fruitvale district, told the Guardian building hazards and fire code violations are not uncommon in Oakland.

“It’s throughout these neighborhoods,” said Gallo, who lives near the site of the fire and surveyed the damage early on Saturday morning. “We need to enforce the rules. This is the not the first and maybe not the last.”

Oakland mayor Libby Schaaf told reporters the building was permitted as a warehouse. Darin Ranelletti, the city’s planning and building director, said the city was able to confirm blight reports, but that its investigation into illegal construction within the building was not completed.

 

I wouldn't say they built it but my dollar would be on non-republicans running the local government.
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/Seven...-of-safety-issues-illegal-construction-danger

Local politicians - mayor, city councilmen, aldermen don't really represent the core values of national parties, they either serve and try to do their best because nobody else signed up, or, they have an ulterior motive of some sort, or feel like they will have a chance to fix a pet peeve of some sort. Your attempt to blame this on partisan politics is not going to solve the world's problems.

 

Local politicians - mayor, city councilmen, aldermen don't really represent the core values of national parties, they either serve and try to do their best because nobody else signed up, or, they have an ulterior motive of some sort, or feel like they will have a chance to fix a pet peeve of some sort. Your attempt to blame this on partisan politics is not going to solve the world's problems.

I'm not blaming it on partisan politics, I'd say it's more of a local acceptance of a counter-culture that devalues common-sense safety rules. I'm putting the blame squarely on all the parties who allowed this known tinder-box to stay occupied with humans. We have these hippie style buildings all over Portland but the Oregon inspectors would have kicked their butts to the street the instant they saw a mess like that.

 

Counterculture identity politics. Yeah, that's the reason 'The grim reaper' visited.
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/Seven...hose-missing-need-for-safe-underground-spaces

Sadly, some of the dozens of attendees who remain unaccounted for are transgender people and people-of-color.

“We need spaces that are open to folks who are beaten down and oppressed by living daily under patriarchy and white supremacy,” Butler said.

“Last night, had the potential to be incredible.”

That said, Bhatt admitted that “several people told [him] before this that they were thinking of calling out [Ghost Ship] for being unsafe, for being a fire hazard.”

“I think they bit their tongues because we desperately need places to gather,” he said.

He also argued that the city cracking down on underground scenes won’t be a solution. “If people think by punishing spaces it will make potentially unsafe underground venues go away, they’re wrong,” he said. “The trouble is the lack of spaces to begin with. Places that are safe and also somewhat unscripted are necessary.

 

I'm not blaming it on partisan politics, I'd say it's more of a local acceptance of a counter-culture that devalues common-sense safety rules. I'm putting the blame squarely on all the parties who allowed this known tinder-box to stay occupied with humans. We have these hippie style buildings all over Portland but the Oregon inspectors would have kicked their butts to the street the instant they saw a mess like that.

This can happen anywhere. A struggling older hippie business owner, a sympathetic building inspector who puts a "maximum capacity 40" sign on the wall, - after all, he remembers drinking there when he was a kid. A few months later, a bunch of college students suddenly deside this is a cool "retro" place and suddenly the owner is dreaming of catching up on his bills and sending the bouncer down the street to get more liquor. A half hour later, a fire breaks out and 250 people can't get out fast enough, trip over the crap on the way out and become a news story. If it wasn't a sympathetic inspector, it could have been a bribed inspector or an inspector who didn't give a crap or wasn't qualified to inspect.

People make decisions and robust decision-making processes including enforcement processes make things safe but few towns have the level of administration expense and management skills needed to keep everyone safe.

As for the counter-culture, the cost of keeping a facility of that size in compliance will likely raise the cover charge and cost of drinks above what the patrons in that market can afford. They clearly pointed out in the quote of post #10 that they knew the place was a fire hazard but it seems they would rather take the risk than give up the venue. I'm not saying it is right that the place was operating as a fire hazard, I'm just saying that bad things can happen anywhere and it take effort, money and education (awareness campaigns) to make everything safe and I'm seeing more push to decrease funding for federal safety-related agencies FDA, USDA, OSHA, EPA, HUD, and local agencies (code enforcement, police departments, fire departments, ...) than I am seeing to increase funding.

 

I'm just saying that bad things can happen anywhere and it take effort, money and education (awareness campaigns) to make everything safe and I'm seeing more push to decrease funding for federal safety-related agencies FDA, USDA, OSHA, EPA, HUD, and local agencies (code enforcement, police departments, fire departments, ...) than I am seeing to increase funding.

The problem behind all those organizations is for many all they ever see of them is their enforcing poorly written, near to totally irrelevant or in too many situations now all encompassing ones that do not fit everyone everywhere every time rules on good business or entire industries and populations trying to keep alive and moving forward in life.

I and most people have no problem with those regulating agencies going after the true criminals and gross offenders. We would love to see them step up their games that area 10X over! It's the overstepping their authority and petty nitpicking then pounding the average guy into the ground over those issues while the gross offenders walk around without a second look that got so many so set against and untrusting of those agencies now.

Most of those types of agencies when first formed were much needed and publicly welcomed contorl entities. The problem is they grew into uncontrollable power hungry monsters under false pretences and reasoning and turned on those who need them the most while catering to the groups they were made to control.

 

I and most people have no problem with those regulating agencies going after the true criminals and gross offenders. We would love to see them step up their games that area 10X over! It's the overstepping their authority and petty nitpicking then pounding the average guy into the ground over those issues while the gross offenders walk around without a second look that got so many so set against and untrusting of those agencies now.

That was exactly my point, the enforcement of this venue was likely slack because it was owned by an average (not rich/successful) guy and played on the emotions of the agency representative. In the next weeks, he will likely lose his job for not "nitpicking then pounding the average guy into the ground over those issues".

Rules are rules. Average guys can run operations that kill people as easily as big business.

 

This was far more than a "nitpicking' over minor code violations. With that huge Fire load inside the building nothing short of a deluge suppression system would have stopped the fire after flash-over. Most of the people were doomed a few minutes after the flames were detected.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/04/us/california-oakland-fire/index.html

Oakland, California (CNN)At least 24 people have been confirmed dead in a massive blaze that gutted a converted warehouse over the weekend during an electronic dance party.

The death toll is expected to rise as crews search the wreckage of the two-story building, which burst into flames late Friday night. Only some 20% of the building had been searched as of Sunday morning, authorities said.
"The number of lives lost will increase,"said Alameda County Sheriff's Sgt. Ray Kelly.
The names of some victims could be released Sunday, he said. It could take weeks to identify other victims through DNA and dental records, Kelly said. He added that officials were also working with the transgender community to identify some of the victims.
Oakland battalion fire chief Melinda Drayton said the recovery search would be long and arduous as firefighters work to remove debris "literally bucket by bucket in a methodical, thoughtful, mindful and compassionate way."
...
The 27-year-old Mulé told CNN more than 20 people living in the warehouse, paid rent and were all involved in the creation of the space.

 

This was far more than a "nitpicking' over minor code violations. With that huge Fire load inside the building nothing short of a deluge suppression system would have stopped the fire after flash-over. Most of the people were doomed a few minutes after the flames were detected.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/04/us/california-oakland-fire/index.html

I believe it but the fire load didn't happen in a day, it likely built up over time as the "space" was created. At what point does it cross the line? How often does a place like this get inspected? How quickly can a place go from nothing to something in pop culture flash mob era where a well-connected person can get a 1000 people to show up somewhere with a tweet on 2-hour notice.

I think it is unrealistic to say something like "this couldn't happen in my town". These days, it can happen anywhere.

 

I believe it but the fire load didn't happen in a day, it likely built up over time as the "space" was created. At what point does it cross the line? How often does a place like this get inspected? How quickly can a place go from nothing to something in pop culture flash mob era where a well-connected person can get a 1000 people to show up somewhere with a tweet on 2-hour notice.

I think it is unrealistic to say something like "this couldn't happen in my town". These days, it can happen anywhere.

It was scheduled to be inspected for known violations this November but the inspector said they couldn't get in. The inspector can call the Fire Marshal and/or the cops to RED TAG and secure the building, I'm guessing we will eventually get the full story once the building is empty of dead bodies.

Sure a fire can happen anywhere but this one was just so preventable on so many levels.

OAKLAND (CBS SF) — The official death toll in the Oakland Ghost Ship Warehouse fire grew to 30 mid-day Sunday after firefighters spent the night meticulously searching the burned-out wreckage of the dilapidated two-story building that served as an illegal music venue.

Alameda County Sheriff’s Sgt. Ray Kelly said nine bodies were recovered by early Saturday night with another 15 located overnight. Six more were recovered later Sunday morning, Kelly announced at a hastily-called news conference shortly after noon.

 

A little info about the person who 'managed' this fire trap.
http://heavy.com/news/2016/12/derick-ion-micah-allison-facebook-post-ghost-ship-fire/

 

That was exactly my point, the enforcement of this venue was likely slack because it was owned by an average (not rich/successful) guy and played on the emotions of the agency representative. In the next weeks, he will likely lose his job for not "nitpicking then pounding the average guy into the ground over those issues".

Rules are rules. Average guys can run operations that kill people as easily as big business.

In this case I see what he had going and I have no problem with calling it a gross offender situation. It was a public accessible location he made money off of and standard unbiased regulations needed to be upheld and enforced because of it.

Now had he been some low income guy they found with a old garage stacked full of old pallets and junk he burned in his non EPA certified fireplace he got from Harbor Freight on his own non public access property on the edge of town and they went nuts over it that's the sort of regulatory overstepping BS I have a real problem with.

 

I happen live in California and I live and work very close to Oakland.

You have no idea regarding the highly liberal politics here in California and in Oakland.
Jerry Brown (D) was once the mayor of Oakland and now twice the Governor of California.
The same guy that call "Governor Moon Beam" The once hippy type that loved and dated the liberal anti-war traitor Jane Fonda. They never change.

What happened here is tragic to say the least. I am sure all the blame will or should be directed to the ultra liberal politics that control not only the city of Oakland but the state as well.

Keep in mind that it is the very same liberal officials that repeatedly allowed and condoned the anarchy and riots to take place over the last couple of years. With crap liberal issues like "Occupy", "black lives matter", the election of Trump, to name a few. These same political hacks ordered the Oakland police to stand by and let the rioters have their way and destroy public and private property. The same liberal mind set was responsible for not enforcing the building codes that would have saved so many lives tragically lost in this fire.

Here is another example of yet another over-looked issue happening in Oakland. I've noticed over the past couple of years that there are more and more "3rd world types" being allowed to set up make shift kitchens along public roadways. These are literately one after another, right next to each other. Many times placed in front of other businesses when they are closed for the evenings or weekend. They cook and sell who know what to others, that frequent these illegal businesses. Where is the health and safety department? Along with the food vendors are others that have set up what looks like flea market stalls that sell all kinds of crap. These areas remind my of certain parts of Mexico I visited many years ago.There has to be many code violations taking place. All over-looked by the same liberal hacks that run these cities. Oakland and Berkeley are " Sanctuary Cities" and want goes along with that political mindset is turning a blind eye to really what is taking place. Let's hope that with a new conservative president and leadership we actually see that "Making America Great Again". Finally take place.
-

 

I happen live in California and I live and work very close to Oakland.

You have no idea regarding the highly liberal politics here in California and in Oakland.
Jerry Brown (D) was once the mayor of Oakland and now twice the Governor of California.
The same guy that call "Governor Moon Beam" The once hippy type that loved and dated the liberal anti-war traitor Jane Fonda. They never change.

What happened here is tragic to say the least. I am sure all the blame will or should be directed to the ultra liberal politics that control not only the city of Oakland but the state as well.

Keep in mind that it is the very same liberal officials that repeatedly allowed and condoned the anarchy and riots to take place over the last couple of years. With crap liberal issues like "Occupy", "black lives matter", the election of Trump, to name a few. These same political hacks ordered the Oakland police to stand by and let the rioters have their way and destroy public and private property. The same liberal mind set was responsible for not enforcing the building codes that would have saved so many lives tragically lost in this fire.

Here is another example of yet another over-looked issue happening in Oakland. I've noticed over the past couple of years that there are more and more "3rd world types" being allowed to set up make shift kitchens along public roadways. These are literately one after another, right next to each other. Many times placed in front of other businesses when they are closed for the evenings or weekend. They cook and sell who know what to others, that frequent these illegal businesses. Where is the health and safety department? Along with the food vendors are others that have set up what looks like flea market stalls that sell all kinds of crap. These areas remind my of certain parts of Mexico I visited many years ago.There has to be many code violations taking place. All over-looked by the same liberal hacks that run these cities. Oakland and Berkeley are " Sanctuary Cities" and want goes along with that political mindset is turning a blind eye to really what is taking place. Let's hope that with a new conservative president and leadership we actually see that "Making America Great Again". Finally take place.
-

The "again" in "make America great again" means he wants to take us to a condition that we've had before.

Now the trick is to get an anti-regulatory regime to increase regulations. Good luck.
(From the Trump website)