The amazing properties of water.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by h2opower, Nov 13, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. h2opower

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Aug 30, 2009
    45
    0
    In this thread we shall go over all of the properties of water, even the newest ones heating up the science world, "Water Has a Memory."

    To start off I would like to set the record straight water is not an ash, it is the foundation of life as we know it, for without it no life exist. So the analogy of water being compared to ash is pure nonsense for without ash life goes on, with ash life goes on as it is not needed in the equation of life. Plus an ash is a non renewable product something you can not get back once burned, water is a renewable product that no life on this planet can do without.

    Now water's polar nature means that when water is suspended it really acts as a capacitor, able to hold a charge, and will deposite that charge on anything it hits. Rain is a perfect example of this. Due to it also being a dielectric liquid it can take on an image charge of a two charged plates. In the rain cloud the image charge comes from the clouds themselves as every cloud forms three capacitors. One from the earth to the bottom of the cloud, another from the bottom of the cloud to the top of the cloud, and yet another from the top of the cloud to the ionisphere. In a thundar storm the charges of these capacitors are so great as to reach the breakdown voltage in air some 30k per cm. What is not comomly known is in the center of a cloud that is capable of producing thunder, hydrogen and oxygen are being formed by the break down of water in to it's componet elements due to excessive image charge voltage that is able to over come the cohesive properties of water. Once the cohesive properties of water are overcome by voltage pressure the water droplet splits into two smaller droplets and the voltage is divided between them. This process of divid and split will keep going until the crittical volume of water is reached and the water droplets then breaks down into hydrogen and oxygen. The oxygen falls to earth and as it does some of it recombines with O2 to form O3 ozone. If anyone has been in a lightining storm you will recall the smell of ozone production of the storm. Not until recently has it been decovered that hydrogen was also being produced, as the lightining strikes from the top of the cloud to the ionisphere shows a pink tint and that spectrom of light is the same as hydrogens ion spectrum of light. Remember hydrogen is lighter than air so it floats upwards at a rate of around 20 m/s.

    With the help of NASA photos and image videos we can see the explosions taking place inside of the thundar cloud when lightining strikes take place within the cloud. This produces the loud earth shaking thundar we hear and feel when these strikes occur, unlike a strike from the bottom of the cloud to the earth which is sharp and crackly. Only now is science begining to understand the complexe dynamics of a thundar storm. Even the self-ionization of water plays a role in the complexe nature of a thundar storm. I think the corrent term used is an electro dynamic dynomo when talking about the workings of lightining storm. Lord Kelvin's water droper expirement is an small window into these complexe reactions that take place in a thunder storm. In these expirements the moving medium is just plan water, and the system can build up voltages in excess of 20k volts with no external voltages being applied. The only thing in these experiments is air, the full properties of water, and gravity, the only missing part is the suns light interactions.

    Anyway I wanted to talk more about water and it's ablities and properties in open forum so I can get others points of view :cool:.
     
  2. Papabravo

    Expert

    Feb 24, 2006
    10,144
    1,791
    This is an electronics forum, not a chemistry forum. I don't care about the properties of water.
     
  3. shortbus

    AAC Fanatic!

    Sep 30, 2009
    4,013
    1,531
    You should ues speel check before posing. Its free in the uper rite conar of the paige
     
  4. t_n_k

    AAC Fanatic!

    Mar 6, 2009
    5,448
    782
  5. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
    20,766
    2,536
    Silly me, I thought water was the result of burning hydrogen in oxygen, an oxide of hydrogen. There is no doubt it has unique properties, but the first statement is true and all the denial in the world will not make it less so.

    As to ozone, an electrical discharge in pure oxygen is all that is needed, water is not a necessary part of the equation. It is possible the senario you propose also happens, but it is a sidebar, not the main show.

    We shall see how long this thread goes before it degenerates, I'll be following it.

    Truth is, there are a lot of interesting aspects of chemistry. This planet is just lucky that all it's free hydrogen was locked down with oxygen early. The comet bombardment didn't hurt either. If current theory is correct, the collision with a mars sized planet also didn't hurt.

    Hydrogen itself deserves a lot of attention, as it is smack in the middle of the metals group, while not actually being one. In theory, with enough pressure (which has yet to be created) it could actually be a stable metal, but this has yet to be proved definitavely. There have been pure hydrogen solids formed however going down this path. Another interesting aspect is it possible metalic hydrogen could be a room temperature superconductor, only experiment will show if this is true.

    The size of hydrogen atoms is small enough that they will soak into a metal (and many other solids), the atoms going between the grain of the material. When I worked on a sputtering machine (think of it as an electric paint sprayer, only using metals) we'd have to outgas it in a high vacumn for a day before we could use it. Helium does this too.
     
  6. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
    20,766
    2,536
    I just reread what you wrote. Care to quote a reliable scientific source for this? I flat don't buy the explosion senario. The mechanism for thunder, as with electrolysis and acoustics, is well understood. You don't need hydrogen/oxygen explosions to create thunder. The thunder in clouds is muffled because it is in clouds.
     
  7. h2opower

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Aug 30, 2009
    45
    0
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weaEFZRI_Fs
    Water has memory and when it goes through a phase change this memory is reset. I for one find that very interesting.

    Water as a dielectric shows it has a break down voltage: http://www.sandia.gov/pulsedpower/prog_cap/pub_papers/water_breakdown_tests_PRSTAB_2009.pdf
    In the case of accelerators this breakdown is unwanted and must be designed against. But the main reason water is not typically used as a dielectric is it's low breakdown voltage. Dr. Faraday showed that very well with his work.

    But still water is the great mystery. Why and how does water have memory? When water is compared to all other componds it really stands alone with it's unique properties. To the average person, water is an ordinary substance often taken for granted. Even though the cause of these unique and unusual properties is explainable at the atomic level, water is truly a remarkable substance.
     
  8. wr8y

    Active Member

    Sep 16, 2008
    232
    1
    What do you mean, "Water has memory"?
     
  9. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
    20,766
    2,536
    Followed by

    Funny, no where were hygrogen / oxygen explosions mentioned, matter of fact you true a heck of a lot of conclusions from very little evidence.

    New Age stuff. Up there with sleeping with a crystal under your pillow, or muttering spells over a pentagram. Made as much sense. That video link was a waste of my time, water has memory, and the earth itself is alive and sentient. Reminds me of religion, which I never argue with, unless it tries to portray itself as science.

    I knew about the nitrates BTW, the quantities are extremely small. Good thing too, nitric acid is nasty stuff. Like cyanide and arsenic, extremely small doses can be considered nutrients. It works even better in snow. Something my grand dad used to tell the kids, he was proven right and explinations given by a university long after he told me.

    Nobody has ever questioned electrolysis. It is well understood, the documentation and conditions established fairly precisely. If fuel cells become more available it and they will make one heck of a rechargeable battery.

    Hydrogen will make a great transport system for energy, if something else doesn't beat it to the punch first. It might even be an energy source, if fusion ever becomes practical (which I believe is a matter of time).

    ***********************

    Another thought occured, you don't think this hydrogen stays disassociated after the lightning strike? Given the heat it would recombine with fresh oxygen durn quick. Good thing, free hydrogen doesn't stay mixed in the atmosphere, it goes to the top of the atmosphere, and is gone. It is not easy to separate oxygen and hydrogen, the charges by themselves in the clouds won't do it, and pure water is an excellent insulator. If it were easy there would be no hydrogen left.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2009
  10. loosewire

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 25, 2008
    1,584
    435
    Professor marsden,great presentation.
     
  11. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
    20,766
    2,536
    Naw, just incensed. I hate mysticism, it has no place in science. Guess I'm over reacting, but I think the universe is interesting enough without distractions. It definitely doesn't work with electronics, unless it's a Dr. Who prop of course.

    What we can already do with electronics would qualify as magic over 300 years ago. We'll do more, but it will require clear headed thinking to do it.
     
  12. h2opower

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Aug 30, 2009
    45
    0
    Hi wr8y,
    This is all new to me, but from what I can gather thus far is water's structure can be altered by thoughts, emotion, to the point where it can heal or kill. Watch all these videos: Note - <The Matrix is more fun> this is just number one there are twelve in all. As I don't have all the answers a lot of research on this has to be done by the individual. But water sure is something extraordinary and not the simple stuff most think it is.


    And more reading on this: <snip>

    Also the works of <a totally discredited enthuiast> are starting to make a lot of sense to me now.

    I am at the begining of my learning about this concept of water having memory. So for now the best I can do is give the reading I find about it.;)

    h2opower.

    Moderator's note: This post has had several links to utterly fantastic and mystical sites removed. We do not play host to ascientific beliefs.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2009
  13. h2opower

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Aug 30, 2009
    45
    0
    Bill_marsden,

    Can you explain the mechanizims that are taking place in this video?

    Moderator's note: How is it that Tokyo is still there? - I have seen a giant creature destroy the city numerous times in a video.



    How is just ordinary water doing this, give the complexe version if you don't mind.

    h2opower.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2009
  14. loosewire

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 25, 2008
    1,584
    435
    There a lot static electricity in the world,you can touch your car door handle
    and get shocked. There a spark that Ignited your gasoline In the the cylinder
    of your engine. There a song (Do You Believe Magic) yes, the song make me
    move to the sound.
     
  15. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
    20,766
    2,536
    So we're going to argue ESP and mysticism? Don't think so.

    Science can be wrong, but it is self correcting if properly applied. Delusional thinking goes forever, and can never be argued or corrected. It is a matter of faith, and faith is not about logic or the scientific method.

    Out of billions of snowflakes someone finds shapes they think are meaningful. Might as well take pictures of tea leafs, same thing. It's a lot like taking a video at face value, even though you know anything can be faked using it.

    BTW, how snow flakes are formed is also well understood. We make em on demand, it is so understood. No mysteries there.
     
  16. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
    15,815
    282
    We have clearly crossed the line into mysticism and silliness. This thread no longer has any scientific basis (not sure there was much there to begin with), and will move to Off Topic.

    The OP is reminded that AAC does not wish to become a sounding board for a great many things. As this topic has nothing to do that has any connection with electronics, perhaps it would be worth your while to convince us that there is any merit in keeping this thread open.

    There are many other boards that welcome such mystical explanations of natural phenomena. We absolutely do not wish to appear to be comfortable with or endorsing non-scientific (alternative) views of the universe.

    Without some really good reason for it, expect this thread to be heavily edited and perhaps closed. This will not become a soap box for non-scientific beliefs.
     
  17. h2opower

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Aug 30, 2009
    45
    0
    Okay, so that one was too hard for you, I accept you failing to answer the question as to one of ignorance or pure beyond your capabilities at this point in time in your life.

    The relaxation time for water is є/σ< 10-6 seconds and for air є/σ> 10 seconds giving the water plenty of time to keep it's charge as it falls to the buckets. In the buckets the charges builds up to the point where they reach and overcome the breakdown voltage of air. In the video shown can 'A' is negetive and can 'B' is positive but that is not something that will always be for the water it's does this spontaniously. It is an example of electric fields and moving media, in this case the moving media is ordinary water. Charges on the buckets induce image chareges on the jets from the way it is electrically connected. As the drops of water pull away from the stream they do so with a net charge and this charge builds up in the bucket. Due to water polar nature on the positive can 'B' the water spreads as it is attracted to positve fields of can 'B' this is due to it is more electro negetive than positive. Because water is self ionizing is how it is able to build up a charge without any outside electricity being applied to it. With the relaxation time for water being greater than that of air the droplets are able to keep most of their induced charge as they fall into the collection buckets where it adds to the charge from the preceding drops for the charge doesn't have time to leak off.

    Now you can build this very simple electric genarator and try building up a voltage with oil, or gasloine, and even jet fuel, but nothing will happen, no voltage will build up, no reaching the breakdown voltage of air. Not until you put water with it's amazing properties back in will any voltage ever be built up to reach the air breakdown voltage. Not until you place a medium like water being polar and self ionizing will you be able to replicate this expirement.

    So <snip> insult removed

    h2opower.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2009
  18. SgtWookie

    Expert

    Jul 17, 2007
    22,182
    1,728
    Are you serious?

    I hate to tell you this, but water is the by-product of the combustion of hydrogen in the presence of oxygen. That, my friend, is pure scientific fact.

    "Ash" is what remains when substances are burned.

    Water meets the definition of "ash" perfectly; the only difference between what we usually think as "ash" is that it is a clear liquid instead of a white to black powdery substance. The difference in the appearance of the by-product is not really relevant; it IS an "ash" with arguably unique properties.

    Were water an element, you might have a case. However, it's H2O.

    By starting off a discussion attempting to make an assertion that is blatantly false, you really glaze the eyes over of the reader; and strongly tend to discredit anything else that might be written in the rest of your post.
     
  19. h2opower

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Aug 30, 2009
    45
    0
    Sgt. show me one ash that can be broken down and replaced with the same elements just one. Making an ash is a chemical break down a physical change that can not be put back together again, water does not fit that definition. Once you burn wood it's gone for all time it can never be put back together again.

    h2opower.
     
  20. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
    15,815
    282
    Condescension? The master speaks to the ignorant?

    You may recall I asked for some valid reason why this thread should continue, as it has yet to demonstrate any worth. You have signally failed to do so.
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.