Testing car electrics need help please

Discussion in 'The Projects Forum' started by Simplicio, Mar 17, 2015.

  1. Simplicio

    Thread Starter New Member

    Mar 17, 2015
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    My badly needing replaced small car has given me a real headache in that I moved it up drive at side of house to wash and by accident it was started while in gear with hand brake on. Engine turned over car jumped forward an inch or so before ignition turned off ( car is manual)

    Put car in neutral and turned starter key , nothing at all ,no sound other than faint click which sounded like a solenoid movement. All dashboard lights come on, battery seemed ok and since has been charged so it has 13 v at terminals not under load.

    Seems likely to be starter motor problem but starter motor is not visible ,encased in bell housing only a connection on end of lead from positive post on battery to bell housing .

    Someone trying to help has suggested using my voltmeter to measure in parallel voltage drop on this cable.when under starting load .

    How do I do this if cable is connected ,I presume it's black cable on voltmeter to negative ie earth on battery ,but red voltmeter connector to what remembering I can't get access to starter motor itself just the socket connection. Also what is the difference between a series and parallel connection in this case .

    If this doesn't throw up any bad result does anyone have any other helpful suggestions other than get rid of a car or call in an expert.

    Car is now blocking drive for access to garage doors ,taking out bins etc so major headache ( and wife is not too happy either !)

    I am safety conscious but any safety hints gladly accepted ,real non expert on electronics.
     
  2. Dodgydave

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jun 22, 2012
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    1)put car in reverse take handbrake off and rock the car forwards and backwards to free the motor,

    2) call a mechanic.

    3) as previous post + call fire brigade.
     
  3. Treeman

    Member

    May 22, 2014
    158
    15
    Hit starter with rubber mallet (improvised if req.). Gears Stuck in Flywheel or solenoid jammed out causing GSiF. Other than that you will need an expert - how you gonna get the part out and replace it otherwise? Check ur insurance for breakdown or get a tow to garage.

    Really - don't waste your time on this. Learn some Electronics while waiting. Priceless.
     
  4. Simplicio

    Thread Starter New Member

    Mar 17, 2015
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    1 tried these suggestions already ,all failed
    2 Trying to avoid spending a lot of money as it's not worth much ,would need uplifted to garage + repair costs
    3 Heard of someone who did that , but fire spread to garage which housed uninsured almost priceless Alvis being restored , write-off , not such a good idea methinks.
     
  5. alfacliff

    Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2013
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    can you check the battery voltage? an in gear start like that might have finished off a marginal battery.
     
  6. MCU88

    Member

    Mar 12, 2015
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    [Some inapplicable text removed by moderator]
     
  7. Simplicio

    Thread Starter New Member

    Mar 17, 2015
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    Thought about the rubber mallet but starter motor and solenoid inside housing so can't even do that .

    Agree with your last suggestion and am already started.

    Question::

    The starter relay is a Omron 95224-2D000

    There are 4 pins 2 of 6.3mm and 2 of 5mm . There is no diagram on the relay and no numbers on the pins so how do I identify power in side and output etc and test using a voltmeter

    Would a better alternative be to bridge the correct relay sockets in the fuse box and turn on the ignition. If so how do I ensure I am bridging the correct 2 sockets if I don't know which pins are which on the relay

    Is it reasonable or accurate to assume that it will be one of the two bigger pins on the relay which carry the input from the battery and the output to the load ?
     
  8. MrChips

    Moderator

    Oct 2, 2009
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    Can you push the car while in neutral?
    (Remember to release the handbrake. I know someone who made this mistake very recently.)
     
  9. Simplicio

    Thread Starter New Member

    Mar 17, 2015
    15
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    After non start two or three attempts batter was in low 12v. Put it on overnight charge and now,not under load reads 13.45v

    Notice one of the cables to alternator not looking too healthy but don't think that should affect starting as believe the alternator only comes in after the starter turns over the motor , correct me please if that assumption is wrong.
     
  10. Simplicio

    Thread Starter New Member

    Mar 17, 2015
    15
    0
    Car in limited space up side of house off road only a yard or two space in front ,would have to push out on to main rad backwards.
    Tried a few pushes forward in 2nd gear to free starter if that was problem but no positive result.

    Came to the conclusion before I thought of asking the boffins on here for help that the only option left in terms of DIY will be to push it out on to rad ,get a couple of healthy strong ladies or gents to push and drop the clutch in third with ignition on ie rolling jump start but because there is no hill and the road is quite busy that's a last ( maybe my last too!) resort.

    " Blame nobody,expect nothing,do something"
     
  11. MrChips

    Moderator

    Oct 2, 2009
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    Next question, what's the make and model of the car?

    You should be able to jump start a small car on a flat with just two lads. Done it many times.
     
  12. Simplicio

    Thread Starter New Member

    Mar 17, 2015
    15
    0
    Small light car Getz . Fairly confident about pushing because 2 or 3 of us are over 6 ft and around 13 stone + was more a last resort thing because an auto electrician warned that this can irreparably damage the starter motor if your unlucky. Trying to go down other avenues first ie eliminate the broken wire bust relay possibilities etc
     
  13. praondevou

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jul 9, 2011
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    What's the year of the Hyundai Getz and which motor? I had EXACTLY the same problem some time ago with an Accent 2003 when it was extremely cold here, starter turned 3 times then the short cable from solenoid to starter motor blew up, too much corrosion and too much current.

    At least you seem to know where the starter is, take a picture and post it here.

    The starter motor is a simple brushed DC motor with really thick wires, weakest point being the brushes and the wire to the solenoid.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
  14. Marcus2012

    Member

    Feb 22, 2015
    349
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    If you are getting a clicking sound when you try to start but nothing is turning over and the battery is charged then yeah this sounds like a jammed starter gear. Short of taking it off for inspection the only solution is to rock the car back and forth till it frees (but do this in the highest gear) or beating it into submission.
     
  15. Marcus2012

    Member

    Feb 22, 2015
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    I just saw you wrote that you heard a "faint click". Check to see if the start motor relay is ok on all terminals you may have busted it when it tried to draw more current.
     
  16. praondevou

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jul 9, 2011
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    It shouldn't be that hard to measure the voltage on the solenoid/starter assembly. See also the attached pdf. It was really a pain in the a... to measure and access it but it should not be impossible.
     
  17. MrChips

    Moderator

    Oct 2, 2009
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    I see three possible faults:

    1. Starter motor stuck
    2. Starter motor burnt
    3. Cable to starter motor burnt or weak (or as praondevou says, bad brushes).

    Yes, you want to check all three as others have suggested.
     
  18. praondevou

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jul 9, 2011
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    Maybe you are able to access it from below for some analysis. Lift the front wheels and have a look under the car.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Marcus2012

    Member

    Feb 22, 2015
    349
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    [Some inappropriate text removed by moderator]

    EPIC FAIL
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
  20. Marcus2012

    Member

    Feb 22, 2015
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    Is there something above it that can be removed for ease of access, air filter box, that kinda thing?
     
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