Terorist?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by shortbus, Jan 6, 2016.

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  1. shortbus

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    The guys in the Oregon stand-off claim, amongst other things, to be Christians. Does that make them "radical Christian terrorists? Would they get the same treatment they are now if they were Muslims? Or if it was a group of black lives matter, members?

    Why can they take over a federal building, demanding the return of land bought from people back ~1930, from failed farmers? That land was bought and paid for, then made into a federal wildlife refuge. The whole thing is about returning it to the original owners. Shouldn't it go back to the Native Americans that originally lived there, by that logic?
     
  2. Sinus23

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    The thing I took from the news article posted in the local news is that the police doesn't want another WACO situation.

    Does that make them terrorists? Well yeah kind of...Justified cause..Maybe...Probably not though...
     
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  3. GopherT

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    Agreed, different protesting groups are treated differently. My brother just pointed out the same thing. Change.org "protesting" (urban camping?) on Wall Street for months seems to be at the top protestor cast.
     
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  4. ronv

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    Radical Mormon Cowboys.

    RMC :D

    To jail this time I think.
     
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  5. Lestraveled

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    Last edited: Jan 6, 2016
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  6. dannyf

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    "Terorist"

    For discussions like this, it really helps if you can articulate what you mean by "Terorist" so everyone uses that terminology consistently.

    If you cannot do that, you can look to see if those guys in Oregon do things terrorists typically do: do they behead people for having the wrong religion? Do they stone wemen to death for going to school? Do they execute prisoners of war and let their 6yr old play with the heads? Do they blow themselves up in restraurants or markets and other public places to kill and injur as many people as possible? Do they enslave and rape wemen just because they can? Do they stab people randomly on the streeta? And do they fly airplanes full of passengers into buildings full of people? ...

    Alternatively, if you can convince isis and nutjobs like that to limit their actions to occupying government buildings in the middle of nowhere and insisting on non-violent solutions to their demands, I will support your call to send to them police officers and not barrel bombs.
     
  7. boatsman

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    I don't know what language you use every day in the US, but in English 'terrorist' is spelled with two 'r' s. It reminds me of the old form of loyalty (perhaps attributed to Lyndon Johnson) 'dot my 'i' s, cross my 't' s and lick my 'r' s.
     
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  8. R!f@@

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    Naaah! Not terrorists.
    Just psychopaths or just bad childhood.
     
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  9. ronv

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    I guess they are.
    terrorist ‎(plural terrorists)

    1. A person, group, or organization that uses violent action, or the threat of violent action, to further political goals.



     
  10. shortbus

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    But in dannyf's world their not, since they haven't killed or harmed any one YET. I agree with the dictionary.
     
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  11. wayneh

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    I think they'd get the same treatment. The press coverage would be more hysterical, but I think the law enforcement reactions would be similar.

    As I understand it, not much damage has been done and nobody's life is being threatened. They're far less threatening and costly than all the government-sponsored riots we've seen in the last year, and taking any action risks a Waco or Ruby Ridge incident. So any sensible law enforcement would act with caution, regardless of who is inside. They may just get cold and go home, after all.

    One thing these guys share with terrorists is that they are childishly lashing out at a world that doesn't suit them and that they feel they can't control any other way. They're frustrated with a lumbering and inefficient government. Well, welcome to adulthood, death and taxes. Getting mad and stomping your feet because you don't like reality is something a 2-yr old does.
     
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  12. #12

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    For a first guess, as far as I can tell, "terrorist" is the latest buzz word for, "threat to government control". I heard about senator Joe McCarthy chasing The Communist Threat all over Hollywood, but that was before I was born. Bob Denver (Gilligan's Island) played a character called Maynard G. Krebs on a TV show called: The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis. That was The Beatnik Threat, quickly followed by The Hippie Threat and The Yuppie Threat. Personally, I have received about seven or eight traffic tickets because of Marlon Brando in a movie called, "The Wild One". That's, The Motorcycle Gang Threat. Now we have, "Terrorists".

    One part of me says, "Thank Dog those idiots have a real threat to focus on instead of writing me traffic tickets for a movie that arrived when I was was 3 years old." Another part says, "Oh crap. This one isn't imaginary. They use guns and bombs instead of long hair and protest signs." So, it seems to me that anybody who uses a gun to say, "Join my cause or die" is a Terrorist. Unfortunately, that includes things like the Christian Crusades (with weapons available at that time) and The Roman Empire and a couple of changes in Great Britain over the centuries. Hmmm...time to ponder. The waters are muddied by people with guns and bombs protesting government misbehavior like stealing Native land by sneaking it into the annual budget paperwork or burning down a church with women and children inside. Suddenly I remember, "The winner writes the History books".

    A week ago, I was sure the present power system would win. Now we have a petulant child with a bad haircut and nuclear bombs. If he acts on his stupidity and ego, The Wheel might turn...and I still haven't landed on a definition of, "terrorist".:(

    Edit: After about half an hour of thinking, I come up with, "A terrorist is a person who kills random strangers who have no political power in the hope of changing the present system of political power, and in the end, does not succeed."
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2016
  13. R!f@@

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    @#12
    You should inform who ever they are to change the description of "Terrorist" in the dictionary and wiki.
    I totally agree with you :D
     
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  14. nsaspook

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    These non-Oregonian clowns (to be a terrorist I think you need to scare at least one person other than yourself) are so far out of their element here they look ridiculous. I give them two weeks without power before they turn on each other or start a sausage fest.

    Fence the place in, kill the power and come back in a month for the frozen bodies if they won't surrender. Harney County (7,000 people living within a 100-mile radius) Oregon is a frozen hell hole that I'm sure ;) the Ranchers (The Hammonds) had no problems leaving for a nice warm prison down south. I think 5 years for what they did is excessive but that's what you get when you take discretion in sentencing away.

    http://www.kptv.com/story/30905478/cheers-for-sheriff-who-tells-armed-group-to-go-home
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2016
  15. wayneh

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    Attacks on our uniformed military (for example at Ft. Hood) isn't exactly killing "random strangers", but it would be fair to say those victims have little political power. Usually no more than the rest of us.

    I understand the sentiment but I don't know what words would capture it. You can't say the targets are non-military or non-strategic. To the terrorists, a Paris nightclub is indeed strategic.

    Governments try to keep a monopoly on violence, and a terrorist is someone infringing that monopoly.
     
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  16. boatsman

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    wayneh, I'm surprised at you! Everyone knows that the Fort Hood killings were a 'work accident'. The Obama administration said so, so it must be true! The fact that the deranged officer shouted out 'Allah Akbar' had no connection whatsoever - if you believe in the tooth fairy.
     
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  17. #12

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    Thank you. If the general consensus agrees, I humbly accept your praise.

    However,
    I am not sure I have made the best definition. Observe, Waco, Texas, May 18, 2015:
    Two motorcycle clubs meet in a restaurant to discuss their microcosm of political power. Unknown to them, hundreds of police have the place surrounded to thwart The Motorcycle Gang Threat created in a 1954 movie. One agent provocateur, or one idiot in a motorcycle club, fires a pistol, and the massacre is on. Nine killed, eighteen wounded, and the police arrest 177 stunned spectators for the deaths caused by the police ambush.

    https://reason.com/blog/2015/10/03/waco-biker-massacre-gq-writer-paints-a-p

    This might change my definition to: "...in the hope of changing or maintaining the present system of political power...".
    The problem with that, is that it calls my government a terrorist organization, and I can't do that if I really want to stay in this country and finish out my days unmolested by the petty bickering of those who seek power.

    I guess this means I should leave my first definition stand because the winners write the History books, and they never call themselves terrorists. While we are talking about definitions, look up, "coward". You might find my avatar.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2016
  18. nsaspook

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  19. Lestraveled

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    Fear the birders, they are coming for you.
     
  20. shortbus

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    The leader is Clivan Bundy's son. The guy that had the armed standoff last year, for not paying grazing fees for use of federal land. So it seems to be OK to take things that don't belong to you if they do belong to the Dept. of the Interior. Guess that gives them the right to use armed resistance to things they want. Must be in the Constitution some where.
     
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