Sparky, not everybody is taught at home as a kid how to grow food like you. I didn't have the first clue. Putting this stuff in school would give every kid the opportunity to learn how, even the kids whose parents keep the freezer stocked with TV dinners.

I think you overestimate the strength & stability of the global economy. Actually I've never seen you this combative on any issue before, which makes me think that either someone in real life just pissed you off, or you're trying to convince yourself and not us. Do you know what advancement we've made since, say, 1700? We discovered oil and found lots of neat things to do with it, and that's nearly all. Everything else would have been (would be) impossible without it. No great industry, no great wars, no great technological leaps, no exponential population explosion. If all the oil disappeared tomorrow, we would be almost right back where we were 300+ years ago.

No, oil isn't disappearing tomorrow, but it IS disappearing. Hopefuls (like yourself I presume) are staking their future on the "fact" that some grand new technology will replace oil but nothing ever will. There are plenty of alternatives, but that's just what they are, alternatives, not replacements. Like getting done with a marathon and needing to drink a liter of water but all that's available is a liter of hot coffee. Our entire infrastructure is designed around food, medicines, everything needed for daily life being whisked across the face of the planet to where it's needed at relatively little cost. This is going to have to change. We will experience a shift from this networked planet to a more "obsolete", sectioned planet. Groceries will have to start coming from down the street instead of from Alaska or Florida or New Zealand. Agriculture is going to become a more common occupation than it is now.

It would be best to educate the future citizens of the world in the skills that they are going to need to be successful.

 

But then surely you know that you've got to rest the land to allow nutrients to return?

Otherwise you'd have to use fertilisers - woops, won't be getting any packs from the garden centre after doomsday.

Even then, it's physically impossible to create a decent diet from a back garden sized plot of land. Unless you are happy to live off of potatoes and turnips. You can forget bread, cheese, milk, Fruit juice, etc.

Actually with composting and crop rotation you don't. You grow green fertilizer plants at times to just grow a bunch of matter real quick and cut it down and let it rot. These are things that aren't taught anymore, but should be. I could easily feed myself off my back yard. But thats only because I know what to plant when and the best way to preserve what I've grown. Then you can also breed rabbits,quail. phesant, tilapia, and chickens ect... which will give you protein and fertilizer. If a collapse or doomsday thing does occur were as a society so out of touch with our food if you have seed stock and know what your doing you'll be fine. BUT people who don't have these skills will be looking to take what you have which is where firearms come in. I'm in FL, I can walk into any yard in this state and make gallons of juice. Orange, Tangerine, Lemonaide, sugercane, honey, etc.....I know where you live its a much different climate so you may not be able to feed yourself in your yard, but because of my location and I can grow food 24/7/365 we would be fine along with CA. Everyone else will be having issues.

 

Do you know what - I've just learned a valuable lesson.

The best solution to a problem is usually the easiest one.

Good luck to you, I wish you the very best after Doomsday.

 

It's a horrible situation to be in - and I pray it will never happen. But there is nothing we can do to prevent it, or the hardships afterwards - nothing.

Sparky, there are lots that we can do and people are doing it, now.

Check out a Transition Initiative (Transition Town) near you. There are 418 TT in the UK and over 900 in 34 countries.

http://www.transitionnetwork.org/

 

Very interesting.

 

Here localy the school has an Agriculture department where interested students can study & grow there own products including runing sheep & poultry. & there are Wheat crops grown in small padocks owned by the shool. Just wondering do these things happen in other countries?

 

I can just see all the "doomsday preppers" rushing out to learn trig and algebra now they've read this thread.

Speaking of decision making, it's DM101 to be able to weigh up probability vs consequence. The consequence of nobody in the world being able to do trig after all the computers go down might be nasty. But the *probability* of an incident killing every computer and calculator, destroying every book on the planet, and killing every person who already knows how to do trig? Come on.

Anyway, I never said that nobody should ever be allowed to learn trig, I said for *highshools* to focus less on specific math like trig and focus more on general real-world skills. Anybody doing a technical career will need to learn trig anyway so even in "planet Roman" IF the computers all go down there would still be a significant percentage of the population with trig skills.

Can you suggest a better means of teaching and testing logical thinking, problem solving and decision making? ...

Absolutely! Teach the actual skill, do classroom scenarios and work the students through the logic of what choices they would make. Correctly written PC games would also be ideal.

I find it interesting that you would think trig and algebra would form the very best method of teaching decision making in the real world.

 

@stantor, this is happening all over. My middle son (40years old) never had ANY desire to learn the old ways or gardening. This year he borrowed all my homesteading books and planted his first garden. He did the garden his way and it isn't doing too well, but he has started asking me and other "old farts" where he made the mistakes. Sure that next year will be much better.

 

I believe all maths to be a good indicator of decision making, problem sloving, etc, because it is one of the few things in life which has a 100% certainty of being correct (well - most of it).

If you gave a student a right angled triangle, one side and one angle, and he got the right answer, it's clear that he has a good grasp of the concept, but has also made the correct decision when choosing his method, has applied the method correctly and has solved the problem.

If they have not got the correct answer, then said student either hasn't used the correct method, or applied it correctly, or solved of the problem.

I cannot think of another method which gives a solid result as maths does.


Re; gardening. I have no problem with people growing food! My point is that it is not something that requires a formal education, instead it would take away from the other subjects. If you have access to land, you can buy a book/follow instructions of packets and you have grown stuff. If not, go on a forum.

Not that long ago, we had a thread saying that kids were dumber than ever, and that the three r's needed to be improved. How is that going to be done, if more time is spent teaching gardening?

Again, I'll make it clear. There is nothing wrong with growing food - just it shouldn't be taught in schools!

 

Here localy the school has an Agriculture department where interested students can study & grow there own products including runing sheep & poultry. & there are Wheat crops grown in small padocks owned by the shool. Just wondering do these things happen in other countries?

It depends on where you live too, if you live in the country they still teach agriculture in HS.

 

Here localy the school has an Agriculture department where interested students can study & grow there own products including runing sheep & poultry. & there are Wheat crops grown in small padocks owned by the shool. Just wondering do these things happen in other countries?

In the US we have the FFA. Our kids were members when in high school.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_FFA_Organization

 

@stantor, this is happening all over. My middle son (40years old) never had ANY desire to learn the old ways or gardening. This year he borrowed all my homesteading books and planted his first garden. He did the garden his way and it isn't doing too well, but he has started asking me and other "old farts" where he made the mistakes. Sure that next year will be much better.

Problem is with climate change its really hard for beginners because whats written in books and old school stuff no longer applies. It used to freeze here in the winter, now it doesn't. Droughts killing us though.

 

My sister has been teaching for 5 years and she is in the $60K range as a mathematics teacher. But that's Illinois. I don't know about other areas however. But I do know that she was teaching in Florida out of school where she was making over $40k to start.

If teachers are making $20K or so, it might just be an area with exceedingly low property values.

 

My sister has been teaching for 5 years and she is in the $60K range as a mathematics teacher. But that's Illinois. I don't know about other areas however. But I do know that she was teaching in Florida out of school where she was making over $40k to start.

If teachers are making $20K or so, it might just be an area with exceedingly low property values.

No doubt, My cousin who teaches at a super private prep school makes around 50k, my sister who works for the public school system makes around 27k.

 

No doubt, My cousin who teaches at a super private prep school makes around 50k, my sister who works for the public school system makes around 27k.

That's just nuts! For someone to get up every day, travel to work, work all day and travel home, spending maybe half their waking life away from their family and home, working for someone else, for 20 something k a year???

And I don't mean that as an insult to your sister, more as the opposite! ie; with that level of skill and effort she should be getting much more than 27k a year!

I just can't understand why people enslave themselves for such low amounts, sometimes for their whole life. Anybody can be free, and it doesn't cost that much for enough food to be happy and somewhere to sleep.

 

Agreed thats why she quit teaching this year and took a job as a researcher at Tropicana. We had over 800 teachers quit or take early retirement this year after the $=test scores gig. Now all the teachers are plumb tards.

 

$=test scores

The government answer to everything is throw dollars at the problem.

How many private schools participate in that gig?

 

The government answer to everything is throw dollars at the problem.

How many private schools participate in that gig?

0 null nothing.