The reasons that people teach are as varied as human personalities, and their dedication and effectiveness are as varied as that of other professions (even engineers.) I have worked with teachers who were underpaid and with teachers who were overpaid, even though they made the same salary. However, I have also worked with engineers who exhibited the same sort of compensation disparity.

Generalizing can quickly become stereotyping, which is invariably inaccurate and often insulting.

 

@ Geo,@Biil ,not knowing the U.S. really,the U.S. reallty. The U.S has a low

education rate of sucess. So where do you place the blame,at pizza makers.

 

Bad tasting pizza is a major deterrent for any professional pursuit...

 

I sit thru school board meetings and never hear the word student,it about rules and

benefits and how hard it is to fire teachers. The college board of regents have there

own langage,for a reason. They know how to raise college fees,ready for a debate.

 

This isn't about colleges only. In contrast to a preliminary teacher, a college teacher doesn't have to build character out of the students, he only has to educate a willing audience. Much easier if you ask me and this is why they also do research in parallel.

 

I was the one who used the verbiage " teaching degree". I was also the one saying that teachers must be passionate about their work to accept such low pay. Then that was challenged, so I was seeking confirmation or debunking from a known educator (post 53). I hope that wasn't seen as inciting an argument or trolling or being a dunderhead. It wasn't my intention to offend anybody.

 

I was the one who used the verbiage " teaching degree". I was also the one saying that teachers must be passionate about their work to accept such low pay. Then that was challenged, so I was seeking confirmation or debunking from a known educator (post 53). I hope that wasn't seen as inciting an argument or trolling or being a dunderhead. It wasn't my intention to offend anybody.

It would appear that if you do anything but accept their desired opinion, presented without support, that you are a dunderhead and deserving of direct, personal insults. While, if you present a position, offer support for it, acknowledge that there is wide variability, specifically point out that you are very interested in seeing information supporting other viewpoints, and pointedly refuse not to respond to the personal insults thrown at you, then you are somehow deliberating being insulting and are flaming and trolling (while the personal insults directed at you are completely ignored).

It would appear that, in this forum that "is all about conversation", that conversation is only welcome provided you tow the party line. That saying anything not in concert with the party line is uncivil, while making direct personal insults toward anyone that doesn't tow said line is accepted without comment.

 

Well you can't say I didn't warn you.

 

Well you can't say I didn't warn you.

This is true.

 

Go back to millionaire.

 

@ Geo,@Biil ,not knowing the U.S. really,the U.S. reallty. The U.S has a low

education rate of sucess. So where do you place the blame,at pizza makers.

It is sad that the ranking of US education has declined over the past thirty years, but the fault should not be laid solely at the feet of the teachers. There are many other factors: the decline of family structure and parental discipline, the over emphasis on sports, the lack of a national curriculum and standards, the No Child Left Behind act, the overpaid administrators who add nothing to the educational process except overhead and useless in-service sessions, the school days and terms that are shorter than other developed nations, and cut even shorter for extracurricular activities, the lack of a developmental career path for teachers that doesn't involve coaching or administration, the endless string of pointless, time-consuming paperwork shoveled on classroom teachers, and, last but not least, the absence of salary structures that would attract top candidates to every open teaching position, and eliminate the need for tenure, which is in itself a contributing factor to educational failure.

 

Overseas have better education rates , because

Every one come to U.S. for education.....no replys

When theres a ring of truth .

Dumbing down

 

It would appear that if you do anything but accept their desired opinion, presented without support, that you are a dunderhead and deserving of direct, personal insults. While, if you present a position, offer support for it, acknowledge that there is wide variability, specifically point out that you are very interested in seeing information supporting other viewpoints, and pointedly refuse not to respond to the personal insults thrown at you, then you are somehow deliberating being insulting and are flaming and trolling (while the personal insults directed at you are completely ignored).

It would appear that, in this forum that "is all about conversation", that conversation is only welcome provided you tow the party line. That saying anything not in concert with the party line is uncivil, while making direct personal insults toward anyone that doesn't tow said line is accepted without comment.

Actually, it is you making the insults. Interesting how being right at all costs trumps basic courtesy. You have a teacher who has pointed out your assertions do not apply to her, but there is no simple acknowledgement of that fact, you plow on no matter whom you hurt.

The fact that most of the schools fundamentally work doesn't seem to matter, nor does the fact that you are talking over exaggerated generalizations that isn't even a good stereo type. Granted, that doctorate I mentioned isn't the norm, but he isn't that uncommon either. I had several like him when I was growing up, my Dad mentioned several in his school too.

When trying to zing people as a class, and put them in a pigeon hole you are comfortable with, try to be aware of whom you are talking to. You are allowed your opinions, but when you make it personal I get involved.

It is always easy to point out the failures, this is a big country, and we have lots of easy targets. I've seen lots of them. But for every one I've seen, there are many more who are trying their best with a system not of their making. As with many things, there is no one pigeon hole for people.

There seems to be a rethink of the current system based on a single test, we can hope it continues. My personal opinion is we need more teachers and less administrators. In the high school where I went the principal was also the chemistry teacher.

Oh, and one last thing, the bit about a degree not being required is a bit of disinformation designed to win a argument and put down a profession, and not does not portray reality. Most schools do require a degree, and many teachers have a Masters. They also require some internship. There are situations where they have to relax the rules because there would be no one to do the job otherwise. Trying to pretend all schools are one massive institution, and follow the same rule set can be shown to be blatantly false with just a little reflection. Just as there are really bad school districts, there are also good ones, and many in between.

I have split this thread from where it started, as I foresee its closure sometime in the future. Way too much hyperbole and distortions, along with the thoughtless comments.

The original thread is here...

Millionnaires!!!

 

The report is accurate with regard to Tennessee teacher salaries, and does not include any college teacher data. As to private school teachers, they actually make less than their public school counterparts. This is because the working conditions (students) are generally better in private schools, so there are many public school teachers who are more than willing to take less money and move to the private sector.

With that said, I do agree that good teachers are paid too little.

Fair enough I lived in TN and saw the corruption in the school system was rampant. Down here its the opposite. Private school teachers make 2x to 3x what public school teachers make. Public schools here are getting so bad their setting up all the charter schools, which seem to be a blend of public school run privately. Which is kinda scary because it just puts another berrier to the haves and have nots.

 

It would appear that if you do anything but accept their desired opinion, presented without support, that you are a dunderhead and deserving of direct, personal insults. While, if you present a position, offer support for it, acknowledge that there is wide variability, specifically point out that you are very interested in seeing information supporting other viewpoints, and pointedly refuse not to respond to the personal insults thrown at you, then you are somehow deliberating being insulting and are flaming and trolling (while the personal insults directed at you are completely ignored).

It would appear that, in this forum that "is all about conversation", that conversation is only welcome provided you tow the party line. That saying anything not in concert with the party line is uncivil, while making direct personal insults toward anyone that doesn't tow said line is accepted without comment.

Friend, While I was in HS, most of the teachers I had, were going to school at the same time, this was adding onto a Masters, if not higher. That wasn't a fluke. Most of the teachers did that. Sure, there were some who didn't, and half of those, were already VERY well educated. Ironically I think that that's a better test of a teacher, than their required re-certification. Most Schools/School Distracts have their own set of rules, regulations, and requirements.

 

Actually, it is you making the insults.

Really. Please quote these personal insults that you say I am making. I can quote several that went the other way and that you, as a Moderator, clearly have no problem with.

You have a teacher who has pointed out your assertions do not apply to her, but there is no simple acknowledgement of that fact

Huh? I specifically acknowledged this: "If you say so, but I tend to be skeptical (at least in general, I have no basis upon which to make any supposition regarding your specific case)."

Oh, and one last thing, the bit about a degree not being required is a bit of disinformation designed to win a argument and put down a profession, and not does not portray reality.

Okay, now who is deliberately using disinformation to try to win an argument?

Where did I say that a degree is not required to teach? I said that in most states there was no requirement for any kind of teaching certification to teach at the post-secondary level. Are you claiming that most states do have such requirement? How do you make the leap from saying that no teaching certification is required to claiming that I'm saying that no degree is required? I then explicitly stated that most schools want you to have a degree at least one step higher than the courses you are going to teach. Since that was specifically speaking of post-secondary, that means that most schools want you to have at least a Master's degree, which is a much stronger statement than your counter that "many" have Master's degrees.

Trying to pretend all schools are one massive institution, and follow the same rule set

Where did I claim this? At several points I pointed out that a lot of variation exists. Did I post something that claimed to be single set of requirements for teaching at any school, or did I post a link where people could look at the requirements, and how they vary, across the states? I specifically noted that the example I highlighted, namely my own state, was probably in the middle of that variability.

Since it is considered rude and inconsiderate to express a view that disagrees with the party line, this will be my last post in this thread.

 

I GET POKED AT About my grammar and that stuff.if I am

nerd that watches board of regents meetings I EXPECT MY

OUTRAGEous STUFF TO BE TRUE. WHO THE BLAME YOU ALL

DON'T HAVE THE JOB YOU DESERVED OR THE RELATIONSHIP

THAT WAS MENT FOR YOU. THIS A COMPLEX WORLD OF NON

ANSWERS, SO WHY CAN'T WE QUESTION STATEMENTS.

 

I AM CERTIFICATED IN a Lot of stuff. I don't

Bring it up, I DON'T BRING IT UP SO I

DON'T GET QUESTIONED ON IT.

 

Ask yourself, who benefits from an education system such as this?

I got close to obtaining one of those certificates, I love teaching. One on one type. But where I am there are no limits on class sizes and teachers union is only concerned about their pension (by the way teachers union and teachers are different things, however teachers do nothing to change the fact that they are not represented). I couldn't be in the environment where I cannot speak my mind.

some examples ... an anti-war arts project was axed because a student made a gun replica
... putting students into applied math classes where they learn who to do taxes for 4 months in grade 11
... solving all quadratics with graphing calculator - people leave high school incapable of subtracting fractions and only able to draw graphs using table of values

To go back on track - teachers are different, just like any professional. I believe all started out wanting to change the world (although a prospect of summer "off" is a good one), some were broken by the system, others are still holding on, I salute them for it.

 

Here I go again watching p.b.s. school

Program.