SMD Identification help request - Images, no schematic

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by mogwopjr, Sep 20, 2012.

  1. mogwopjr

    Thread Starter New Member

    Sep 20, 2012
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    Hi forum!

    I have a microcontroller board that I am trying to repair. I was able to ID everything else except for one of the components that was knocked off the board. Here is a link to the images.

    (first time posting images to the internet so I hope this works)
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/87191102@N03/sets/72157631585261390/with/8007875749/

    Here is what I think I know:
    The part is labled 103S - or maybe 1035 but pretty sure its an S.

    The component is magnetic
    The component has 3 solder pads

    The dimensions are -
    3mm long x 1.5mm wide x 2mm high -approximate since the digital calliper was not working and I had to rely on the scale instead.

    There is another component exactly the same as the munched up one that is still attached to the pcb. In the images 1,11,10 and 9 just to the left of 103S(still attached) are the pads where the mangled component came from.

    Also, I'm not sure how to test the circuitry to find out what kind of component it is.
    Does anyone have any ideas on what this could be?

    oh yea, no schematics... :(

    Thanks for looking!

    mogwopjr - Travis
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2012
  2. strantor

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 3, 2010
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    I'm 95% sure that says 1035

    do you mean the component attracts to metal or that the component attracts to magnets?
     
  3. BSomer

    Member

    Dec 28, 2011
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    I looked through my copy of a SMD Code book that has about 2500 pages and could not find either "103S" or "1035". The package shown is one that I have only come across a few times and those were ceramic resonators.

    I tried but came up empty. :confused:
     
  4. THE_RB

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 11, 2008
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    The inside looks like ceramic capacitor type construction. I would guess something like a ceramic resonator, or maybe a dual cap suppressor (3pin package) or dual filter as it seems unlikely to have two packages side by side in a power section of a PCB (if they were resonators).

    If you say what device the PCB is from and show a full photo of it that would help a lot, as info on where those tracks connect to.
     
  5. mogwopjr

    Thread Starter New Member

    Sep 20, 2012
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    Thanks for the reply's! I agree that the center inside looks like a ceramic cap, but i've not run into magnetized ceramic caps yet.

    strantor, I went to move it with my metal probe and it "stuck" to the probe. The probe is not magnetized, so I assume that the component is. The component has magnetic properties and is attracted to metal.

    The component in question, I think, traces up to the A00B above in the images. It looks like they're op amps but I'm not sure how they fit in to the overall picture. This kind of electronic troubleshooting is new to me. I will try to trace things out and maybe draw up a schematic of the affected area.

    The PCB is part of a controller that died for a motorcycle. The company that sold them is out of business now and replacements are rare. This component is on the micro controller board of the controller module. The other PCB that attaches to it handles voltage regulation and has a series of led indicators as well as the db50 (memory is fuzzy) & db35 connectors to connect to the wiring harness for power and signaling.

    I'll post pics of it soon. It was previously potted so it is difficult to get a clear photograph of the traces without modifying the image. Since its a multi layer board that makes it more difficult to trace things out as well.
     
  6. radiohead

    Active Member

    May 28, 2009
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  7. mogwopjr

    Thread Starter New Member

    Sep 20, 2012
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    Thanks for looking BSomer. I have never seen a SMD that looks like this before, i'm stumped! Plenty of 3pin packages, just not like this.

    I'll be able to post pics of the entire board shortly. I did a little tracing of jumpers on the board, its only a 2 layer board front and back. One of the pads of this leads directly to an I/O pin on the micro controller. That's the pad under "S" or "5".

    The other pad under the 1 (not the middle pin) leads up to the op amp A00B(I think its an op amp). I have not verified where the middle pad leads to. There is continuity between the outside pads of the still attached 1035/S and no measured resistance in ohms (0.0ohms) across them. I cant get to the middle pin of the currently attached component in question.

    I should clarify - DCI, the company that made the board, is in business. The company that sold the whole controller has gone out of business and no longer sells this component. I have not called DCI yet to see if they can provide the info on this board.
     
  8. mogwopjr

    Thread Starter New Member

    Sep 20, 2012
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    http://www.flickr.com/photos/87191102@N03/sets/72157631585261390/

    I added pics showing the board and what I had time to trace today. One image shows what I traceed in red (one trace is on the opposite side). What I did not show in red was that the circuit will trace from the missing component and eventually end up at the main bus contacts that are at the top right of the image. It is pretty easy to follow just looking at the image and looking at where the missing component is next to the 103S(5)

    They're the silver holes.

    From there they go directly to the Power/Bus board and into the wiring harness to talk to goodies... I have not found out what goodies they talk to yet.

    Thanks again to all for looking! I hope I'm giving good information and pictures.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
  9. BSomer

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    Dec 28, 2011
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    Digging around I found that the A00B IC is most likely this 2 input NAND gate.

    Looking at the datasheet of this IC and tracing things around, it might be that the missing/damaged part is a transistor... Though I am uncertain why a transistor would be placed on the output of a uC to control an input of a logic IC when most uC's can do this directly.
     
  10. THE_RB

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 11, 2008
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    Looking at their position on the PCB they seem to be surrounded by sets of FETs used for driving outputs. I would guess they are some type of suppressor, like two caps in a 3pin pack or two other sandwich type devices like MOVs etc.

    It's not a transistor, their internals to not look like that. As for being magnetic, that would point to being a MOV or dual MOV as they are a sintered metal sandwich. (And it is probably your probe that is magnetised, not the SMD device. ;))
     
  11. mogwopjr

    Thread Starter New Member

    Sep 20, 2012
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    Gosh I hate it when that magnet thing happens. Yea, the probe is magnetic and the component is not. Either that or my metal shavings are broken. I'm voting broken metal shavings. ;)

    I agree it looks like a cap, I'll see if I can get the working one off and put it on a meter to check it out. I did not really want to but it looks like thats the best course now.

    Thanks for all the eyes and suggestions!
     
  12. mogwopjr

    Thread Starter New Member

    Sep 20, 2012
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    update for my own sanity

    emailed DCI the manufacturer today - waiting for a response.

    I'm also still waiting to get time to remove/test the component. I hope to get a response so I don't have to...
     
  13. mogwopjr

    Thread Starter New Member

    Sep 20, 2012
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    Thank you all for your suggestions and efforts. I owe you a drink of your choice.

    I don't know why I was so coy about removing the old component to test it. I guess I work every day in an environment where if it is not broken, don't touch it cause you just might break it.

    Anyway, it is a capacitor. 3 pin package with pins 1 and 3 shorted together and pin 2 as the other end of the cap. Measured 10nf on the meter from pin 1-2 and 2-3.

    Now that I have it identified, where do I find one? I can't find anything like it on Digikey.

    Any further hints? This is where I am told where to go ;)
     
  14. BSomer

    Member

    Dec 28, 2011
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    It could be what is called a "feed thru" capacitor. Most of the ones I have seen though are ceramic. Being a capacitor explains the marking on it, 103 = 10,000 pF and S may be the tolerance or voltage rating.
     
  15. mogwopjr

    Thread Starter New Member

    Sep 20, 2012
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    I just found it! woo hooo!!!! I can't thank you guys enough for pointing me in the right direction. Its taken me 2 months to find this thing.

    I dont think I can post links yet, since another post of mine with a url is still awaiting approval, so I'll post the info I can.

    The component is a Panasonic coil type EMI filter. Search google for: "Coil type EMI Filters(Digital Noise Filters)" -without quotes

    My mystery component is a Panasonic 10000pf Coil type EMI Filter

    103S
    the last character is an S for date code
    first 2 characters are capacitance in pF
    3rd character is number of zero's after the first 2 characters.

    And digikey has em :)
     
  16. BSomer

    Member

    Dec 28, 2011
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    Glad to have helped out.
     
  17. THE_RB

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    Feb 11, 2008
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    Good work! :)

    A feed-through cap makes sense, it's probably a metal plate through the middle (connected to pin 1 and 3) and a cap wrapped around it (connected to pin 2)?
     
  18. mogwopjr

    Thread Starter New Member

    Sep 20, 2012
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    The schematic on the Data sheet show pin 1 and pin 3 tied together, but they have coils on their leads. So pin 1 connects to a coil that connects to one side of the cap which has the other side (of the cap) as pin 2. Pin 3 is just the same with a coil then cap then pin 2.

    I hope that made sense. The schematic is so much simpler :/
     
  19. mogwopjr

    Thread Starter New Member

    Sep 20, 2012
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