smart meter hysteria

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by praondevou, Oct 5, 2014.

  1. praondevou

    Thread Starter AAC Fanatic!

    Jul 9, 2011
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    What do you think about the RF emitting smart meters?

    I cannot believe they are harmful if they cause a power density of 10uW/cm2 at 1ft distance...

    So many people claiming they got ill after this thing was installed.

    If at least they could post some real measurement reports and not some crappy YouTube videos made with equipment that looks like an 10$ eBay item. I know for real peak power density measurements you would something more sophisticated.

    Do you know anybody who got ill? Or claims or thinks he got ill because of a smart meter?
     
  2. #12

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    Nov 30, 2010
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    "Smart" what kind of meter?
    I'm missing something here. o_O
     
  3. tom_s

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    Jun 27, 2014
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    downunder the term 'smart meter' refers to the electricity meter. recently had mine changed from a standard wheel to a high tech digital one (EoP) that reports back to the electricity company.

    electricity bills are cheaper now, was really getting peeved off with all the 'estimated' readings.

    edit: it also has some antenna device attached to it, no idea what thats for, apparently fitted default. assumption - bluetooth?
     
  4. Papabravo

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    Feb 24, 2006
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    Problem is that the effects of radiation on human tissue are not very well understood. You are correct in your statement that field intensity and distance are important, but frequency is also important. As we push the upper boundary of frequency from the microwave towards blue light we know even less about the effects of even small amounts. Do not be so quick to trust the power company. They damn near gave us BPL and wrecked HF communications forever.
     
  5. praondevou

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    No, I certainly do not trust them. I do not trust the accuracy of an electronic device either that has to support such a wide temperature range, 70K here.

    I just wonder why there are so many people who really believe that the RF power of a smart meter made theme sick. And before that? Microwave ovens, cellphones, Wifi everywhere, TV towers... This didn't do anything to them? I wonder if this is psychosomatic. But it's nearly impossible to talk to these people.

    I agree, emission limites are possibly to high since they are based on short term thermal effects on tissue. And the effects are not well understood but hey, economy first. Better sorry than safe. ;-)
     
  6. praondevou

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    Yesterday I read an article which sounded reasonable until it said that even the switching power supply within a smart meter would cause "dirty electricity" meaning it would pollute the line voltage. And these 10s or hundreds of kHz frequency would also have adverse healt effects.

    ?????

    And what about the TV sets which have far more powerful switching power supplies? (well ok they have EMI filters) But a smart meter consumption may be a few watts only.

    Hard to distinguish pseudoscience, hysteria and real analysis.

    Why didn't they do tests with mice yet? Put a couple of them in a room with a wifi router for a year and see what happens. I mean they do mice tests for everything else too.
     
  7. Kermit2

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    Some people are highly suggestable, others are just looking for a payday via legal action, and still others like to urge the first two groups toward hysterics.

    the rest of us just 'deal' with it.
    As mentioned already, I also doubt the accuracy of these new meters. My power usage seems to have increased considerably since the changeover last year.
     
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  8. GopherT

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    Nov 23, 2012
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    1) People naturally make correlations.
    2) And the Internet lets them widely distribute correlations.

    About 3% of the population gets sick each year and about 1.25% die. Of those, some may have had a device installed recently and wanted to make a correlation. Especially if they knew there is some controversy about the safety of cell phone Rf.

    Advertising for microwave ovens was mainly showing how happy families used them and how excited game-show contestants were to win one. I am still suspicious of how safe a cell phone is, especially in a pocket - they are known to reduce male fertility. I am suspicious of older microwave ovens as the doors do not set perfectly square and people stand right in front of a 1200 watt source. I am not too suspicious of a smart meter unless the transmitter is right next to my body (meter is right outside my bedroom wall).
     
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  9. praondevou

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    That's another issue, overbilling. "Seems to have increased" means like how much.? There are people reporting bills that doubled or more... Than the answer of the energy provider is this must be due to increased consomption. Lol
     
  10. Kermit2

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    I'm in the same dwelling with the same appliances and AC/heater units. The cooking and cooling heating needs have been pretty much the same for the last two years. Rates have not increased that I know of.

    My electric bill has increased about 25-30%. $280-300 two years ago and $ 390-420 this past year.

    I seem to remember some politician saying "energy costs will necessarily sky-rocket".

    GEE THANKS GUYS
     
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  11. GopherT

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    Nov 23, 2012
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    Some change - not as much as you show...
    They are likely charging you something for that upgraded meter ($100/month?)


    chart.png
     
  12. GopherT

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    Ok, no service fee, just increased overall rates...

    From BGE.com website


    Who’s paying for smart meters?
    BGE estimates the cost of the smart meter program for its service area to be $482 million, of which the Department of Energy has provided a $200 million grant to offset the total cost of the program. By implementing smart meters and related smart grid technology, BGE is investing in the electric distribution system which is for the benefit of our customers. While BGE will seek to recover additional program costs through rate changes that customers will see on their bills, we believe that customers can expect their savings will be significantly greater than any potential costs. Customer savings will come from reduced energy and operating costs as well as the new programs BGE will introduce for customers to help them manage energy use and bills.
    How much will my smart meter cost me?
    You will not have to pay for a smart meter at the time the meter is installed. Any customer charges must be reviewed and approved by the PSC before they can go into effect. We believe that customers can expect their savings will be significantly greater than any potential costs. Customer savings will come from reduced energy and operating costs as well as the new programs BGE will introduce for customers to help them manage energy use and bills.​
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2014
  13. Kermit2

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    Oh!

    So those bills of mine are SAVINGS. Thanks. I was confused and took the depletion of my bank account to be representitive of increased electric billing. But since they "believe that customers can expect their savings will be significantly greater than any potential costs." I will change my opinion to be inline with the stated objective of big business [/sarc off]
    :)
     
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  14. Wendy

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    Mar 24, 2008
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    During the late 70's early 80's Rockwell had to settle with the union because no one on the factory floor was having kids due to the 2.4Gig radiation. Basically this involved moving those men who did want kids to other departments and off the factory floor where the telephone racks were being produced. These were high power transmitter/receivers used for land links.

    The effect is definite, but generally temporary.
     
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  15. praondevou

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    Ah, it's always great to talk to you guys. I like the idea that we/people easily see correlations where there possibly are none, especially for something that should actually cause only longterm effects (not like , oh they installed a meter now I suddenly feel sick). As Bill said, it's also obvious that higher power micro-waves have a negative effect on our health, just deactivate the interlock switch on a microwave oven and stick your fingers in it too be sure. :)

    Increased bills for the same service and the same consumption is definitely reason to be concerned. Some say it's partly because of the meters own power consumption. I don't believe it, this can only be a few watts.
    others say it's because the new meter can and will also measure inrush current of motors, like in a fridge, fans etc. But how often do we restart a motor? And they last also only a few hundreds of ms maybe?

    I wonder how the electronic meter measures against the old eddy current meters when it comes to switched mode power supply currents (without PF correction). If I had two at hand I really would like to do some tests. All the hypotheses on the net are annoying.
     
  16. praondevou

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    Whole lot of BS: "SMART METERS WERE DESIGNED AS NON LETHAL ELECTRONIC WEAPONS... UNTIL SOMEONE ACTUALLY TARGETS YOU."

    This is the kind of stuff you read on the internet. Now think about people who haven't got a clue about RF. Fear mongering everywhere.
     
  17. Kermit2

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    If the old meters couldn't detect the phantom watts of low power factor devices and the new ones can - then that would explain the new higher bills.

    Of course this is the first time in my entire life I have lived in an all electric home. I grew up with gas appliances; dryers, water heaters and central heat, oven and stove, all gas. Now they're all electric. Figures! :(
     
  18. GopherT

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    It could also be an attempt for power companies to get in on the value of information bandwagon. When are they home, when do they cook, how often do they use the stove, how many hours a day do they watch TV?

    Who knows the reason for a smart meter. The possible benefits will not outweigh the cost, for the consumer or the power company.
     
  19. debe

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    Sep 21, 2010
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    Here in Australia I had grid feed system installed, The new digital meter was a one of payment of $400. the interesting thing is it doesn't realy benefit me a lot as the power company charge me 30c/Kw & pay me a credit of 23.6c/Kw. The old disk type meter was beter as it spun backwards when exess power was generated. This would give me a payback value the same as what they charged me.
     
  20. alfacliff

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    Dec 13, 2013
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    the effects are not known? the frequrncies in uhf have been used for years for tv transission, mobile radio and lots of other things. these "smart meters" transmit less power than the common outside thermometer, and about the same way, a short data burst every once in a while. the effect of the average police car radio transmitting a couple of seconds would be more than the effect of these things transmitting for an hour. a lot of hysteria has been stirred up over nothing as far as the efffects of rf at these frequencies. the military transmits megawatt pulses on this frequency band from both coasts continously. any medical or other effects from that?
    as far as the bills going up or down as compared to the manual reading, there isnt really anything we can do about that, it is in the hands of bought off regulators.
     
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