Slave Relay Won't Release

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by FlyNavy, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. FlyNavy

    Thread Starter New Member

    Oct 8, 2012
    20
    0
    I'm trying to use a 4 Channel Wireless Remote Control, to turn on my emergency Generator.
    I've installed 3 slave relays, to be operated by the 4 channel wireless remote.
    All 4 channels latch with the 1st press of that button and release when pressed again. The 4 channel wireless rcv'r board operates with 12vdc....All 3 slave relays are also 12vdc coils.

    The A relay operates a slave relay with a shunt which starts the Gen.
    The B relay operates a slave relay with a shunt path to stop/turn off the Gen.
    The C relay operates a slave DPDT 60A contacts, that close thru 220VAC to the electrical panel. Pretty straight forward, right....

    I've placed Gnd to all 4 channels of the wireless remote control. And Batt (+12vdc) to all the relays. Thus when I operate any channel it closes thru the gnd to complete the ckts, and operate the slave relays,....

    Problem: the slave relays won't release with the second (2nd) pressing of the wireless remote.

    When I do a bench test of the wireless remote control everything works flawlessly...but when put everything into the ckt., the wireless remotes don't release the slave relays, they remain engaged......I'm confused, and can't understand why they won't release. I'm overlooking SOMETHING!

    For the start/stop procedure of the generator the relays have to release after the gen. starts or the starter motor remains engaged into the flywheel.

    Any help would be most appreciated, Lost In Electronics.....
     
  2. Lundwall_Paul

    Member

    Oct 18, 2011
    220
    19
    Can you post a schematic or drawing?
     
  3. Dodgydave

    Distinguished Member

    Jun 22, 2012
    4,980
    744
    What is the circuit model num your working on, can you set up the wireless remotes to just put on an led or another relay, and will it work then, maybe its getting re-triggered with the release of the other relays due to excess current drain?
     
  4. crutschow

    Expert

    Mar 14, 2008
    13,003
    3,232
    Do the relays have a diode transient suppressor across each coil?

    What load are you using for the bench test?
     
  5. gerty

    AAC Fanatic!

    Aug 30, 2007
    1,153
    304
    Had a similliar problem with a wireless circuit. Problem was interference from the ac circuit. Do you have a way to separate the control circuit (wireless) from the rest of it. I ended up having to mount my wireless receiver on the outside of the control box.
     
  6. FlyNavy

    Thread Starter New Member

    Oct 8, 2012
    20
    0
    To Crutschow: No diode ....

    As for the bench test, just putting the (coil) of the slave relay across the ckt....operates Yes, opens (disengages) with second press Yes. Works well.... Thks. Appreciate your input.
     
  7. crutschow

    Expert

    Mar 14, 2008
    13,003
    3,232
    Should likely have a diode (cathode to positive side) across each relay coil unless the driver already has such a diode in its output.

    If it works on the bench with a relay coil, what's different about connecting the same relay in the field where it doesn't work?
     
  8. FlyNavy

    Thread Starter New Member

    Oct 8, 2012
    20
    0
    I'm trying to use the Gen's Batt for the +12vdc supply (car battery) for everything since it's on constant charge. The Ground is common to all portions of this ckt.
    If I use a separate source (12v) for the wireless remote rcv'r, I'll have to add some type of constant 12v to maintain a charged supply, which the battery now provides.

    My wireless rcv'r is not mounted on-or-in the generators box. I have it mounted on my garage eve just inside the window 16' above the ground. That in turn is wired to a 8 conductor plug male/female, wired to the Gen, for a quick release. There's no possible chance of A/C interferance.
     
  9. gerty

    AAC Fanatic!

    Aug 30, 2007
    1,153
    304
    The fact that he's switching a 220v 60a ac load. I believe the ac is interfering with his wireless reception.
    But I was wrong once before .... :)

    edit: 60a may not be accurate. But contacts rated for it.
     
  10. FlyNavy

    Thread Starter New Member

    Oct 8, 2012
    20
    0
    The Gen's power source is the only difference. It's a H/D automotive battery. When I do a bench test I'm using a 12vdc transformer.
     
  11. FlyNavy

    Thread Starter New Member

    Oct 8, 2012
    20
    0
    As soon as I can scan a copy of the schematic I'll post it. Maybe that would help if it were visual...sorry.
     
  12. gerty

    AAC Fanatic!

    Aug 30, 2007
    1,153
    304
    This changes things, I would look for another source such as flourescent lights, fence charger (barn) etc..
    Can you shut off everything in the area to test this?
     
  13. FlyNavy

    Thread Starter New Member

    Oct 8, 2012
    20
    0
    Across the coil or in-line with the positive side?
     
  14. FlyNavy

    Thread Starter New Member

    Oct 8, 2012
    20
    0
    I killed all power to the garage....operated the A wireless remote relay which in turn operated the A slave coil....the Gen turned over, but would not release the start function when I pressed the a wireless a second time. Thanks for the info...but no difference.
     
  15. gerty

    AAC Fanatic!

    Aug 30, 2007
    1,153
    304
    Agree 100%.
    Present problem sounds like the reciever isn't getting the signal to release/unlatch relays.
     
  16. gerty

    AAC Fanatic!

    Aug 30, 2007
    1,153
    304
    We keep cross posting :)
    Can you disconnect ac load and give it a dry run?
     
  17. FlyNavy

    Thread Starter New Member

    Oct 8, 2012
    20
    0
    New Development...
    I hadn't tried this before..when I operate the A relay for the A slave.
    With the slave disconnected then I touch it to the start sw, the Gen turns over, but will not release when pressed a second time.
    BUT if I have the A slave pre-connected to the sw and operate the A relay which in turn operates the A slave ""nothing happens""ie. the Gen does nothing..
     
  18. gerty

    AAC Fanatic!

    Aug 30, 2007
    1,153
    304
    Ok, this is where some kind of schematic is going to come in handy.
     
  19. FlyNavy

    Thread Starter New Member

    Oct 8, 2012
    20
    0
    I haven't gotten that far yet to run the Gen connected to the A/C load. Still working out the difficulties with the fact the A slave won't release the starter.
     
  20. FlyNavy

    Thread Starter New Member

    Oct 8, 2012
    20
    0
    Here is a copy of the schematic. It is attached.
     
Loading...