schematic for the pwm

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by n2freepower, May 25, 2008.

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  1. n2freepower

    n2freepower Thread Starter New Member

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    Please HELP!!!!!
    I would like to have scamatic for the pwm.I built a hydrogen generator. I've seen many different ways to build pwm please give advice.
    Thanks and keep up the good work
    n2freepower
  2. thingmaker3

    thingmaker3 Moderator Staff Member

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    The best way to design a PWM, or any other circuit of any kind, is to begin with a list of requirements. Voltage, current, frequency, and other parameters must be decided upon first. Once you know those, post them here.:)
  3. SgtWookie

    SgtWookie Expert

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    You DO realize that separating the hydrogen from the oxygen in H2O will require roughly seven times the power than you'll get when the hydrogen is recombined with oxygen and burned, right?
  4. RobertZar

    RobertZar New Member

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    Hi
    It is not necessary true. If he try to dissociate water using a water natural dissociation frequency of about 43kHz it might work.
  5. DC_Kid

    DC_Kid Well-Known Member

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    70watts of 43kHz to seperate it yields 10watts of burn....:(

    i honestly dunno, but i do know it takes more energy to seperate it than what you get out of the seperation. hmmmm, how do i know this?
  6. SgtWookie

    SgtWookie Expert

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    If I thought it had the proverbial snowball's chance in (a hot place), I'd be off like a banshee building a hydrogen-fueled turbine-powered electrical generator to mate up with a REALLY LARGE hydrogen generator and prepare to suck the nearest lake dry.

    But that darn perpetual motion thing keeps rearing it's ugly head. :p

    Here's an interesting link to hydrogen production methods and relative costs:
    http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/consumer/hydrogen/basics/production.htm

    Here's an even more interesting link dealing with hydrogen research:
    http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/research/hydrogen/index.htm
    Last edited: May 28, 2008
  7. DC_Kid

    DC_Kid Well-Known Member

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    seems like a good place for catalyst engineers. perhaps one day they can find a catalyst that helps split water and the net result is 1:0.998 (in:eek:ut).
  8. jimmy8170

    jimmy8170 New Member

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    i have what you might be looking for just email and i will send you a copy

    (You DO realize that separating the hydrogen from the oxygen in H2O will require roughly seven times the power than you'll get when the hydrogen is recombined with oxygen and burned, right?)

    this is not true with mine the one i have bilt with out the PWM will run on your car and help boost the gas milage still working on running on hydrogen with no gas butt with the price of gas lets try anything

    as for a catalyst well look around you have some in the kitchen cab baking soda works grate salt works butt a little dangerous
  9. jpanhalt

    jpanhalt E-book Developer

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    There are plenty of hydrogen generators on the web. The only thing over unity about any of them is the ratio of income of the seller to the cost of manufacturing. John
  10. thingmaker3

    thingmaker3 Moderator Staff Member

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    Let's have a bit of perspective. A heinously inefficient hydrogen generator is being used to provide a slight offset to an even more heinously inefficient internal combustion engine. The marvel here is not the goodness of hydrogen, it is the audacious inefficiency of the internal combustion engine!
    Argumentum ad metum is a logical fallacy. Let's be wise, not random.
    Baking soda and salt are not catalysts. They are electrolytes. Please refrain from spreading rumor and misinformation.
  11. jimmy8170

    jimmy8170 New Member

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    well got it up and running to day no longer on gas the 83 ford with 351 works grate so as long as i can pass the gas station i do not mind how every one feels about it i do not sell or try to charge anyone for what i find to work just try to help and get my stuff running
  12. SgtWookie

    SgtWookie Expert

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    OK, so why don't you monitor your fuel economy for a week without using it, and then for a week using it, doing the exact same kind of driving (daily commute, for example).

    Then report back what you've observed.
  13. thingmaker3

    thingmaker3 Moderator Staff Member

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    No longer on gas, eh? Cool. Please let us know what your next electric bill looks like. Should be a doozie.
  14. SgtWookie

    SgtWookie Expert

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    For those of you who may not know what a "doozie" is...

    [​IMG]
    it's a nickname for Duesenberg automobiles; large, fast and expensive autos made in States in the 1920's and 1930's.
  15. jpanhalt

    jpanhalt E-book Developer

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    Worthless junk.

    Needs leaded gas and won't run worth a damn on all of the free hydrogen you can get. :D

    Will you take a '72 Pinto in trade?

    John
  16. thingmaker3

    thingmaker3 Moderator Staff Member

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  17. jimmy8170

    jimmy8170 New Member

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    haha haha haha smile did not say the thing was good but if it runs on hydrogen and no gas any thing can glad no bleavers here makes my life a little cheeper
  18. RubberSalt

    RubberSalt New Member

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    Your electric bill shouldn't go up, as you use your alternator to perform the electrolysis. It may take a large amount of electricity to split the molecules, but how much of it are you actually using? Many smaller engines (like mine - 1.5L) often produce a good 75 amps, which is more than enough. SUVs often produce well over 150. The modern internal combustion engine uses, if your very lucky, roughly 35percent of the gasoline used. The remaining gas is burned by the catalyst.

    Less than 1KW of electricity is more than enough to produce HHO gas. 1HP equals 746 watts of electricity, and this is still plenty enough to perform electrolysis.

    When you have enough HHO in your intake, mixing with your gasoline, you can greatly improve the amount of gasoline burned. This results in more power, cleaner burning, and cheaper rides in the car.


    How high will your water bill be? Well it won't change too much, unless your goal is solely on HHO. 1 Liter of water will turn into 1800 gallons of HHO gas. That’s a pretty hefty amount.

    Pulse width modulation. This is my current subject I'm studying for my car. I haven't fully implemented HHO in my '95 Mazda protégé, my $600 car that gets 27MPG in the city... Back on track here, Pulse width modulation is basically the DC electricity (current and voltage) being stopped and started X times per second. With the correct frequency, you can disassociate the water molecules, making them easier to split. I haven't researched which frequency it is exactly, but I’ve heard 20 kHz, 21 kHz, and 42 kHz, 43 kHz.

    When running electricity through a resistor, the resistor gets hot. The same happens with the water. It acts like a resistor, and with plenty of current, if going to produce some heat. With PWM the heat element is reduced significantly, if not removed. Heat is your enemy here, and so is the cold. Heat produces steam, cold creates ice, unless mixed with electrolyze that reduce the freezing point. Also, in the cold, you will not be able to get as many amps running through your HHO generator. So for you guys out there, I've just had an idea as I typed this. Bypass the PWM on cold winter days. Let the raw current heat up your water to a good 70-90 degrees :).


    I apologize about the spelling, its 3AM and I need sleep.

    The information I posted is true to my research unless stated otherwise.
    I've got some good specs on HHO generators, but nothing on how make a PWM. Anyone with information or a schematic on a PWM, give me a buzz :)



  19. Gadget

    Gadget Distinguished Member

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    Are you serious..?????Heres the facts jack......

    IF you used all the power developed in the engine to run a giant alternator or generator you would end up with around 70% of that power converted to electricity...... You lose 30%
    Charging your battery has a 70% efficiency...... another 30% lost
    Electrolyzing water to H2 and O is around 65% efficient (in the real world....the theory says closer to 90) minus another 35%
    Compressing the H2 is looses you another 10% of your energy (90% efficient... and liquidizing the H2 is worse)
    and the combustion engine you are feeding what little H2 you have left with, only converts around 20% of the hydrogen's potentual into mechanical energy......

    You still havn't bled any energy off the system to run the car yet......
    Basically your perpetual energy machine has lost nearly 95% of its energy within the first cycle, and you havn't even rotated a wheel yet.....
    You would lose a lot less by using the battery voltage to drive an electric motor directly (about 70% loss)....
    Perpetual energy machines are always gonna wind down.. some(like yours) very quickly.... like a clockwork mech that winds up its own spring. All those laws of Physics you learned in High School havn't changed.
    You MUST inject energy from an external source, and if its electric, it is WAY more efficient to run an electric motor directly, than to generate hydrogen to run an engine (or a Fuel Cell/electric motor combo).
  20. jpanhalt

    jpanhalt E-book Developer

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    That is an amazing result, but there is simply not enough data about HHO to be able to validate it. Please show your calculations.

    Is HHO a single molecule, three "free" atoms, or some other structure? At what temperature and pressure did you do that measurement? What is the density of HHO?

    John
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