Hmm, I agree. It seems a bit over-simplified and sloppy to me.....

Maybe that's why I'm able to understand it easier. All of the Eagle files will work in Diptrace also. Even the free version give Gerber files and the things a board house needs, not that I'll ever need that.

@tracecom, I tried a couple of times with Eagle and couldn't grasp the program but so far Diptrace seems OK. My projects would be pretty simple to most of you guy's but when learning on my own it's hard for me. I'd be lost without this forum, long live AAC!

 

Well I've tried DIPtrace and recently tried KiCad, so I can compare it to what I know about Eagle. I absolutely hated DIPtrace. It was too simple, was missing significant pieces, wasn't very intuitive, and was just sloppy overall. KiCad is free, which is a plus, but it too is quite sloppy. It's very intuitive, but again it's over-simplified and missing some important pieces. I'm also not impressed with the 3D rendering. It's the type of thing where you get what you pay for. Personally, I still prefer EAGLE. The layout is much cleaner, you have all your tools in one place, and it's fairly easy to use once you get used to it. And Eagle3D is a very useful program to download in addition to the main software. The Eagle 3D rendering is much better than the KiCad 3D rendering.

So in summary, Eagle is by far the best design software of the three, but the free version has a limited board size. If I was designing a board, I would only use KiCad if it wouldn't fit within the free Eagle board size.

 

Well after learning a bit in Diptrace, thought I'd give Eagle another go. Still the same problem I had before. Lots of libraries, but no really many components, you need to make every thing for yourself. Still after about 5 years of absence.

Even logic gates, wanted to use 74HC and all the have is 74LS. Needed a SG3525, that many companies make and sell, but not even one in the libraries. Need resistors and caps? Eagle has them, need something else? Make your own. Diptrace had them all and way more.

Can some one tell me if I'm not using the libraries correctly? Do Diptrace library files work in Eagle? I'd really like to like Eagle, help!

Unless I'm still doing some thing wrong, think I'll stick with Diptrace. Even if the end results aren't quite as pretty.

 

I use the Bill Marsden Method. Here are a few examples:

 

Here are a few more, including the parts inventory.

 

@#12, thats great for schematics, but what if you want to convert to a PCB?

 

I absolutely hated DIPtrace. It was too simple, was missing significant pieces, wasn't very intuitive, and was just sloppy overall.

So in summary, Eagle is by far the best design software of the three, but the free version has a limited board size. If I was designing a board, I would only use KiCad if it wouldn't fit within the free Eagle board size.

I just watched the videos about DIPtrace and it looked far from easy to me! As for Eagle I downloaded it last night and couldn't even work out how to place a component on my schematic! I've only ever used very simple educational packages such as Circuit Wizard. I have also had a little experience with Multisim, but never created PCB artworks with it.

 

I just watched the videos about DIPtrace and it looked far from easy to me! As for Eagle I downloaded it last night and couldn't even work out how to place a component on my schematic! I've only ever used very simple educational packages such as Circuit Wizard. I have also had a little experience with Multisim, but never created PCB artworks with it.

I agree, Eagle has a bit of a learning curve, but it's definitely worth it. It's a very powerful tool, and once you figure out what everything is it's very easy to use. Where did you get stuck in Eagle? To add a component all you have to do is click the "add" button and select your component from the list. Either that or run a search for it. Granted, it's not as easy as simply inserting a resistor, you have to choose the right size one with the right footprint for your PCB, etc. The libraries are arranged by company name and you have to know what company makes your part. But if you use it enough, it'll eventually become second nature to you.

 

Matt, could you please address my concerns in post #23. Even went to DigiKey to get the manufacturers of the SG3525, that they sell still no go. Thanks.

 

Matt, could you please address my concerns in post #23. Even went to DigiKey to get the manufacturers of the SG3525, that they sell still no go. Thanks.

Hi shortbus. Usually if I cannot find a particular component in the Eagle libraries I try two things. The first thing I do is search google for an equivalent. In this case, a quick google search gives me the LM2524 (made by Texas Instruments), which has nearly the exact same specs as the SG3525 (made by ST Microelectronics). The Eagle libraries include the 2524 in both SMT and DIL packages.

If google doesn't turn up an equivalent, then I search to see if someone else has created an eagle library for the component I'm looking for, that is available for download. Google is also a good tool to find these. If neither of these work (which is quite rare), then I resort to creating my own components, in which case you can use the included Eagle library editor. To tell you the truth, in the last 3-4 years that I've used Eagle, I've not once had to do this.

Hope this helps

Regards,
Matt

P.S. I've since tried Altium Designer as well as DipTrace, KiCad, and Eagle. It's a nice program, but is even less intuitive than Eagle, in my opinion. It's also not free.

 

@#12, thats great for schematics, but what if you want to convert to a PCB?

It seems that the Bill Marsden method is useless for making a circuit board, but it's a start, and it works for demonstrating circuit concepts to beginners. I hope other people here can think of a program that will allow importing a schematic (like the things I have done) and wind up with it making sense to a program that makes circuit board layouts.

That's what it's all about, isn't it? Idea > schematic > circuit board layout > bill of materials > Gerber file?

I did the first part. In fact, I got pretty good at it. Who knows what to do for the second part?

 

That's what it's all about, isn't it? Idea > schematic > circuit board layout > bill of materials > Gerber file?

I did the first part. In fact, I got pretty good at it. Who knows what to do for the second part?

I think the schematic will have to be redrawn in a program that will allow PCB design and export Gerber files. As to component files, there are lots available for DipTrace, and I will use them in a pinch, but I ultimately create my own. I am very picky about pin placement and spacing, and I trust my own footprints more than any others.

I have drawn so many schematics in DipTrace, I am reasonably fast at it. Of course, if I have to stop, define a footprint, create a schematic symbol, and link them, that slows me down. I have also had a few of my PCB designs manufactured. Of course, they are all small and simple.

BTW, is this where you live?
http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/luxury-floating-resort-to-open-off-clearwater/1186145

 

BTW, is this where you live?
http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/luxury-floating-resort-to-open-off-clearwater/1186145

I live on the land about 15 miles west of downtown Tampa, Fl.

Just to fill you in, the Pinellas County side of Tampa Bay is a lot like Los Angeles, California in that it is about 100 miles of city after city, oriented north to south along the coast line. Trying to tell you I live in Largo or Seminole is like telling you I live in Santa Ana or Seal Beach. Each of those is a politically defined city inside a huge metropolitan area encompassing hundreds of square miles.

Fifty to a hundred years ago, each city was a discrete entity with orange groves in between the cities. Now, It has all run together into one massive megalopolis.

 

I live on the land about 15 miles west of downtown Tampa, Fl.

Yeah, it was kind of a joke. I saw your location as 15 miles west of Tampa, and then I saw this resort boat that was 15 miles west of Tampa.

I lived in Sarasota/Bradenton for a year, and flew in/out of TPA, but I never spent much time there.

 

It seems that the Bill Marsden method is useless for making a circuit board, but it's a start, and it works for demonstrating circuit concepts to beginners. I hope other people here can think of a program that will allow importing a schematic (like the things I have done) and wind up with it making sense to a program that makes circuit board layouts.

That's what it's all about, isn't it? Idea > schematic > circuit board layout > bill of materials > Gerber file?

I did the first part. In fact, I got pretty good at it. Who knows what to do for the second part?

I do it all the time. I doodle on a friendly screen, then translate it over to a PCB package, which usually does not display well on a forum. It is all about end goals after all, are you wanting to design, or show and tell? My software works on every computer, proprietary schematic software doesn't.

 

Thanks Matt,for answering. Tried searching for other names for my part, but only came up with the one.

Has anyone tried PCB artist? It's a free version of Pulsonix. They have an online library of parts plus a really big included library. And to my eyes the schematics look just like Eagle.

 

Thanks Matt,for answering. Tried searching for other names for my part, but only came up with the one.

Has anyone tried PCB artist? It's a free version of Pulsonix. They have an online library of parts plus a really big included library. And to my eyes the schematics look just like Eagle.

What I did was I pulled up the datasheet for the part you mentioned, and copied the title into a google search, to find other devices with the same purpose. That's how I found the other device.

I've never heard of PCB artist. I'll have to check it out.

I'm thinking of gathering together a variety of schematic/pcb software and putting them in a table with their pros and cons, just for comparison. I think it might help a lot. What do you guys think?

Matt

P.S. If you all think this is a good idea, go ahead and post names of either schematic/pcb software, or criteria you would like to see in design SW. I'll translate it to a table and could have it put together in very little time.

 

That's a good way to find similar parts, didn't try that but will.

The idea of a soft ware table is a good one, maybe become a sticky here. Another one that I looked at is, Target 3001. It even has a "front panel" design tool with it.

PCBArtist has been around quite a while. The reason most people didn't use it was you couldn't print out your schematic, since their also a board maker (Advanced Circuits) they only wanted to you to have them make a board. But now you can print the schematic and layouts.

Another thing that might be good is to see if libraries from one software will work for other software. I'm to computer illiterate or would do it my self.

 

Okay, this post will be a test post, where I accumulate criteria and software. I'll add to it until it becomes extensive enough to have the mods create a sticky. How does that sound?

Here goes.


Design Software

Altium Designer
Eagle
DIPtrace
ExpressPCB
KiCAD
Proteus
PCB Artist

Criteria

Free
Output Gerber Files
Extensive Libraries
Interchangeable Libraries
Intuitive
Built-in DRC
Multi-Layer Design
No Software Limits
Translate SCH to PCB


That's what I've got so far. Let me know if there's something you'd like me to change or to add. I'll work on the table when we get more programs and criteria.

Regards,
Matt

 

This is what I have so far. Will be adding notes eventually, as some of the checks or exes are on the line.



Unfortunately I have been unable to find any information regarding interchangeable libraries.

If you see any mistakes or have anything to add, please let me know. Thank you!