use a transformer to convert 220 to 110v and use the earth wire to the casing for safety.

You don't need a neutral.

Under N.A. code you can set up a new neutral see post#5,. one secondary terminal is connected to the earth ground conductor immediately at the Tfmr terminal.
IIRC it is also allowed in UK.
The two conductors are then taken from this point, Earth and Neutral.
Max.

 

Under N.A. code you can set up a new neutral see post#5,. one secondary terminal is connected to the earth ground conductor immediately at the Tfmr terminal.
IIRC it is also allowed in UK.
The two conductors are then taken from this point, Earth and Neutral.
Max.

The transformer makes the neutral. Ground is for the casing like you just said. They are not the same until they are bonded together. Ground is what you stand on. Neutral is made by a transformer. That's my understanding. I know how it is done.

 

Doesn't Britian use straight 240 volts, 50 cycle.? Are they using 120/240 volts 60 cycle now?

 

@Whatashame

Did not know this was an american system. Since there is some confusion, hire an electrician!

I have been an electrician since I was 12. I was wiring houses when I was 14 yrs old with my brother. I'm also ,in the process, right now, applying for a patent for all new electrical products which will make what exist today obsolete. Im very excited. Been working on this for 40 years. A five year old will be able to install boxes, outlets and switches.

use a transformer to convert 220 to 110v and use the earth wire to the casing for safety.

You don't need a neutral.

The transformer makes the neutral. That's where neutrals come from. Ground is the ground, where grass grows. That was for other people, not you. Cool?

 

The transformer makes the neutral. Ground is for the casing like you just said. They are not the same until they are bonded together. Ground is what you stand on. Neutral is made by a transformer. That's my understanding. I know how it is done.

Not sure what you mean by "The Transformer makes the neutral"?
In the case of galvanic isolation caused by a transformer the neutral is lost, therefore any secondary connection can be used to bond to earth ground in order to create a new neutral conductor.
Max.

 

Actually Neutral is defined at the power pole, it is the wire from the transformer that is connected to ground. After that they are not connected again. It is so appliances can blow fuses / breakers if they short out hot to ground (the metal case).

The USA uses a 2 (split) phase 240VAC system, and neutral is a center tap on the transformer (in addition to being connected to ground). In a 240 VAC outlet neither hot wire is neutral, and there will be 120VAC between each hot wire and neutral, which may or may not be present depending on the wiring and connector..

Keep it polite. There are plenty of people who know more about the subject that either one of use here. It is possible to be nice (or at least civil) when telling people how electricity and electronics work.

For the record, I am the one who deleted your threads that were not acceptable.

The UK (not sure about Canada) uses 220VAC 50 Hz as opposed to 120VAC. No need for load balancing or 240VAC such as the USA uses.

 

Actually Neutral is defined at the power pole, it is the wire from the transformer that is connected to ground. After that they are not connected again.
.

See post #45 also NFPA79, NEC
Note 480/120v control transformer in attached pdf.
Neutral & Earth are initially connected in the service panel.
Max.

 

I haven't followed this thread in fullness, so I am not familiar with the back ground info on this thread. Many localities have the transformer on a power pole, and that is where the separation is done. It is by far the most standard practice. You can see the wire running down the telephone pole. Meanwhile there are two hot wires, neutral , and ground wires running to the home.

In large buildings, where the transformers are much more local I suspect things are done differently.

My house has underground wiring to the house, with the transformer sitting in a box next to the curb. It is done there with that setup.

 

Take a look inside your service panel, I would be very surprised if the earth and neutral were not connected there.
I also have a transformer sitting on the edge of my lot, there is a ground at that point also.
The discussion on the subject of a local 120v outlet concerns a galvanically isolated transformer and the re-establishment of neutral.
Max.

 

If I decide to install new wiring (and it for sure won't be direct bury), what size would be appropriate for that long a run? I'm guessing by the time I get all the way back to the breaker panel, I'll be close to 180 feet. Will 10/3 with ground suffice?

What are you going to operate?

 

Hi everybody, if you are going to operate something that runs on 120 volt, you need a hot, a neutral and a ground wire. Black-hot, white- neutral, green- ground. If you are going to operate something that requires 240 volts, you need , 2 hots and a ground. Use any color for the hots except white, gray, green or bare wires. If you are going to operate 120 volts and you also need 240 volts, you need 4 wires, 2 -hots, 1- neutral, 1- ground. White or gray is the neutral, green is ground. All other colors are the hot wires. Any thing different from this is wrong. Period. Wrong. I hope that clears up any questions.

 

I have been an electrician since I was 12. I was wiring houses when I was 14 yrs old with my brother.

I never doubted your ability to do house wiring but unless you hold the qualifications that certify your compitency then you should not be touching the house wiring. This is not just for your own safety but anyone elses who purchases that property.

There are many cases where DIY'ers (pre 2005), that did major electrical works in houses. Most of the wiring was not up to standard using the wrong diameter wiring, fauly RCDs, wrong colours and wrong material. A common example is PVC wiring : Never place it near polysterine because a chemical recation takes places that essentially destroys the PVC and thus creates bare wires.

Then there are other tests such as insulation resistance, polarity, continuity and earth fault loop impedance tests.

As I said before, this work that the OP needs doing MUST BE DONE BY A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN

The work will need to be checked and certified for safe operation.

 

@Wendy

Incase you are interested: The UK power lines to properties does actually load balance. I am not sure if it is the same type in america but here the houses take off the three phase lines. To balance the lines each house takes a separate phase so if the phases are 1, 2 and 3 then the first house takes phase 1, the second takes phase 2 and the third takes phase 3. The national grid assumes that each house draws the same amount of current so they hope that this arrangement keeps all three phases balanced.

Of course they have not seen my electrican demand !

 

Doesn't Britian use straight 240 volts, 50 cycle.? Are they using 120/240 volts 60 cycle now?

The UK uses three phase at 400V and each house takes a phase off this three phase at 230V 50Hz

 

@MaxHeadRoom
Why 480v 3ph 60Hz? I have 380VAC 3ph at 50Hz which gives me 220 volts between phases so why do you need 480VAC?

 

@MaxHeadRoom
Why 480v 3ph 60Hz? I have 380VAC 3ph at 50Hz which gives me 220 volts between phases so why do you need 480VAC?

If referring to post #47 the example is from NFPA79 and shows a 1ph 480v to 120v control transformer that has one secondary terminal connected to earth and also shows the neutral conductor.
Max.

 

Of course they have not seen my electrican demand !

In one instance years ago a UK installation of off-peak storage heaters in an older residential area, the service Co. insisted the load be spread across 3 ph for which then ran a 3ph supply in to the residence.
Max.

 

I have a 220V water pump located approximately 150 feet from the house. The exterior grade direct bury romex type feed has a black, white, and bare copper. I would like to create a 110V outlet in the pump house.

Can I use the bare copper wire as my neutral going back to my service panel and create a new ground by clamping off the well casing, or is my only legitimate option to run new four wire romex back to the house?

I doubt if code will allow it. Also, a "double" link between neutral and ground could boost mains usage, with circulating currents, in a worse case situation.

The only safe way to use the cable you have, is a 220V to 120V transformer (you did not mention motor power requirement for the pump!?)

Or to run a new cable with 4 cores, which should have been done originally anyway......that is basically the problem.....a cheap, previous installation........

regards

Andy

 

I have a 220V water pump located approximately 150 feet from the house. The exterior grade direct bury romex type feed has a black, white, and bare copper. I would like to create a 110V outlet in the pump house.

Can I use the bare copper wire as my neutral going back to my service panel and create a new ground by clamping off the well casing, or is my only legitimate option to run new four wire romex back to the house?

that all seems to depend on where the control box for that pump is located. i assume the pump is a submersible 1/2 or 3/4 horse power pump or etc etc. if it is in the pump house then a transformer would be the right thing to do. if the control box is located in the house the those 3 wires are NOT the 220 line. they are 220 with a start winding wire.

 

I wonder if the original poster is even following the thread.

#10s would be OK probably, but as was mentioned, it depends on the load. Look up some values for your pump, and consider what load might be placed on that new receptacle. There are charts and suggested sizes all over the web, of course Ohms law is how you calculate (voltage drop=pump amperage x wire resistance in ohms). Copper's price has backed down a bit, so price it out. Heck, run #8s if you like the cost:benefit you get.