safely pulling 110V off a 220V circuit

Lestraveled

Joined May 19, 2014
1,946
@tcmtech
Of course, if you do not have the skills, or will, to fix your own problem, and go to service outfit, they naturally will choose the most expensive path to fix it and obey all the codes that apply while doing it.

I'm a pretty handy guy. I have built two owner built, owner financed houses. I have re-roofed my house without a permit and yes, I have used the bare ground wire as a neutral. This was all my call. If you ask me for advise, I will tell you to do it right and by the book. It is your call if you want to take a shortcut.
 

tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,867
Good to know. ;)

Personally when it comes to giving advice I tend to give out what works and let the end user decide what is within their range of abilities and what I have seen is that when people are willing to task a question a random internet forum it's because they don't want to go through the hassle and costs of dealing with the BS of dealing with a contractor or their local rules and regulations bureaucrats and costs they tend to have behind them for even the most basic of work.
 

Lestraveled

Joined May 19, 2014
1,946
From my experience, it will take me about 3 hours to learn how to do a building trade skill. I will do the job better because it is for me. If I have to buy special tools for that job, the total cost will be less than if I hired someone to do the job for me. Trouble is I am 62 years old. I don't think I will be re-roofing the house in 5 years.
 

tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,867
Being alive results in death. Trying new things and making mistakes results in knowledge and experience.

Everything else is just filling in the spaces inbetween.:p
 

daniel9237

Joined Feb 6, 2016
4
In Kansas we have the following types of hookups
the main source is any where from 4000vac to 7500vac
at the power transformer it is dropped to a single phase 220vac
that service line is then dropped to the house, service mast, on a very large gauge three wire setup being 220vac
at the meter can-outside junction box that line is fed into the meter at 220vac, single phase
this is where it is dicey the line then goes into the house as 220vac single phase, then is broke down into separate circuits of 110vac via breaker system.
WHITE HOT
BLACK HOT
BARE (neutral or return line)
GREEN IS USUALLY GROUND is done at the meter can and or service mast
 

GetDeviceInfo

Joined Jun 7, 2009
2,192
I used to give electrical advice as an electrician, but then I acquired a Masters certification, and now only give advise to qualified tradesmen. However, because some posts are downright trouble, I'll offer this, get a qualified electrician.
 

Whatashame

Joined Nov 30, 2015
88
Firstly you should hire an electrician. This type of work needs to be notified to the local building regs.
Secondly, you would use a transformer to drop the voltage to the desired level.

The bare copper will most likely be CPC (earth). The black will be neutral and the white will be line (to my knowledge).
Again, you need to hire an electrician.
Neutral is white or gray. No other color. Grd is bare or green, no other color. The "HOT" or power wire, is any color other than , white, gray, green, bare. Can be purple, yellow, brown, black, red, blue, dark or light blue, any color you can think of. Pink . Red, black & blue is usually saved for 3 phase services at 120/240 volt, y or delta hook-up. Yellow, brown & orange usually means 480/600 volts. Please feel to add or correct me if this is wrong. Im getting old.
 

Whatashame

Joined Nov 30, 2015
88
Be careful with L1-L2 and neutral being the only wiring. Newer houses are using PVC piping and the grounding rod we used to use no longer exists (tied into plumbing. In this case you need to be careful where you are "grounding" to.
If there is no city water, you must drive 2 ground rods. One is primary, the second one, and you guessed right, the secondary. The secondary ground wire can be 2 sizes smaller than the primary ground wire. For instant, a 200 amp service requires a # 4 ground so the secondary ground wire is a # 6. The 2 ground rods or loops is so if the first one fails or is removed for some reason, everything will still be grounded until the other ground is fixed. Makes sense, right. If you would like to add or correct, please do.
 

Whatashame

Joined Nov 30, 2015
88
With city water, you still need to drive a ground rod for the secondary ground. Plus, the primary ground has to be clamped on before the water meter , also hit the gas pipe, if natual gas is it the house, to the panel without being broken, meaning all in one peice. It's not always easy to do. Some swimming pools may require a ground rod on each corner of the pool, plus the light box. The inspector may require what he wants and no what is in the code book. Just do it, and don't argue, that's my advice. Lol.
 

Whatashame

Joined Nov 30, 2015
88
I used to give electrical advice as an electrician, but then I acquired a Masters certification, and now only give advise to qualified tradesmen. However, because some posts are downright trouble, I'll offer this, get a qualified electrician.
I agree. Here's the thing. If you do your own plumbing, you may have a water leak and your bathtub falls thru the ceiling 5 yrs later. Lol. Electric by someone who thinks he knows what to do, can burn your house down or kill himself or you. He can put 240 volts thru all your expensive things, like refrig, freezer, flat screen 79" smart TV, hi fi, yes, I said hi fi. Lol. Is it worth saving a few dollars, that's the question. Doing your own carpentry, you can collapse your house. Lol. Read and learn first. Be careful.
 

Whatashame

Joined Nov 30, 2015
88
In Kansas we have the following types of hookups
the main source is any where from 4000vac to 7500vac
at the power transformer it is dropped to a single phase 220vac
that service line is then dropped to the house, service mast, on a very large gauge three wire setup being 220vac
at the meter can-outside junction box that line is fed into the meter at 220vac, single phase
this is where it is dicey the line then goes into the house as 220vac single phase, then is broke down into separate circuits of 110vac via breaker system.
WHITE HOT
BLACK HOT
BARE (neutral or return line)
GREEN IS USUALLY GROUND is done at the meter can and or service mast
Correction, if you use a white conductor as a "hot" wire, you must mark it black, blue, red, brown, pink, orange, flour. red, any color other than, white, gray, green. White is neutral. So is gray at 277 volt hot. Never a hot wire. Must change the color.
 

Whatashame

Joined Nov 30, 2015
88
Being alive results in death. Trying new things and making mistakes results in knowledge and experience.

Everything else is just filling in the spaces inbetween.:p
Love your clown guy, but don't listen to him. He's clowning around with you. He has it backwards. Being alive results in everlasting life. Trying new things and making mistakes is experience, and this may result in wanting knowledge so mistakes won't be repeated. How's that? Clearer?
 

Whatashame

Joined Nov 30, 2015
88
Good to know. ;)

Personally when it comes to giving advice I tend to give out what works and let the end user decide what is within their range of abilities and what I have seen is that when people are willing to task a question a random internet forum it's because they don't want to go through the hassle and costs of dealing with the BS of dealing with a contractor or their local rules and regulations bureaucrats and costs they tend to have behind them for even the most basic of work.
And it only gets worse, but when I had my bizzness, there was no BS.
 

Whatashame

Joined Nov 30, 2015
88
@tcmtech
Of course, if you do not have the skills, or will, to fix your own problem, and go to service outfit, they naturally will choose the most expensive path to fix it and obey all the codes that apply while doing it.

I'm a pretty handy guy. I have built two owner built, owner financed houses. I have re-roofed my house without a permit and yes, I have used the bare ground wire as a neutral. This was all my call. If you ask me for advise, I will tell you to do it right and by the book. It is your call if you want to take a shortcut.
That is soooo dangerous. You have no idea how dangerous that is. You might someday when someone ends up in a burn center. Sorry, you did it, not me.
 

Whatashame

Joined Nov 30, 2015
88
That is soooo dangerous. You have no idea how dangerous that is. You might someday when someone ends up in a burn center. Sorry, you did it, not me.
When that bare neutral starts to corrode or fails, a person touching anything that's grounded, and the thing you wired, they will now be the conductor, the neutral, filling in the gap, and boy, that will hurt and burn, more than if you touch the hot wires directly. Replacing a neutral with a body can kill. Please run a neutral wire.
 

Whatashame

Joined Nov 30, 2015
88
When that bare neutral starts to corrode or fails, a person touching anything that's grounded, and the thing you wired, they will now be the conductor, the neutral, filling in the gap, and boy, that will hurt and burn, more than if you touch the hot wires directly. Replacing a neutral with a body can kill. Please run a neutral wire.
One other thing, I was at a house once, where the aluminum siding on the house was energized. The siding was replacing a opened neutral in the house circuit somewhere. Not good. The dog goes on the house and guess what happened, ouch, didn't know what hit him. Does'nt go on the house anymore. Lol.
 

BReeves

Joined Nov 24, 2012
410
I should probably stay out of this as I'm not anything but a guy that understands what the risks are. If it were mine I would simply use the ground wire for neutral and be done with it. The ground conductor in that direct burial cable is as well insulated as the other 2 conductors. If you live out in the boon docks no one is going to come and arrest you for a little code violation. If it makes you feel better drive a ground rod.

I would wrap the ends of the white wire with red electrical tape and wrap the "bare" wire with white electrical tape. This would be enough to tell anyone what you did that may look at in the future. The odds of something going bad and someone getting killed are about the same is winning the lotto or getting struck by lightning.
 
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