Reversing motor circuit with time on delay

Discussion in 'The Projects Forum' started by BrokenArrow, Apr 17, 2014.

  1. BrokenArrow

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 17, 2014
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    I would like to make a circuit (12v) to Start a motor (110v) CW, stop & set time delay on for CCW of a ½ horse motor (typical garage door opener).

    Objective:
    1. Button is pushed and released, operates motor CW to move object.
    2. Object moves to desired point hits limit switch and stops motor (circuit resets till button is pushed again)
    3. Stopped object sets a time delay to start motor again CCW. (programmable delay start time for 0, 3, 5, 8, 10, 13 seconds)
    4. Object moves to desired point hits limit switch and stops motor. (circuit resets till button is pushed again)

    I have limited electronice background, buy have access to the hardware.

    Can someone assist?
     
  2. inwo

    Well-Known Member

    Nov 7, 2013
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    I can post a quick drawing using two control relays and a delay relay.:)

    If it looks like it may work for you, I'll put a little more thought in it.:eek:
     
  3. inwo

    Well-Known Member

    Nov 7, 2013
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    Is relay logic OK?..........................................
     
  4. BrokenArrow

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 17, 2014
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    Yes, from what I understand I need the low voltage to control the high voltage. The relays used will need to be like contactors?
    In your diagram the 15 sec delay, is that a POT or PID and resistors?
     
  5. inwo

    Well-Known Member

    Nov 7, 2013
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    It could be a common adjustable time delay relay.

    [​IMG]

    Can't go much further without more information.

    What types of circuitry are you comfortable using?

    What type/size motor needs reversing?
    (A garage door motor with it's original F/R contactors, would only require addition of the limits and a TD relay. As they may be interlocked.)

    What type/form limit switches?
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
  6. BrokenArrow

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 17, 2014
    17
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    Where do I connect this type of relay to the garage door opener?


    I'm a beginner. If I know what the parts are and where they go I can build it. Not experienced with what the codes and icons represent.


    Garage door style motor @ 110v, 6amp or even a inexpensive garage door kit. Where do you connect the time delay relay to? The wall mount wire connection.


    similar to one of these.
     
  7. inwo

    Well-Known Member

    Nov 7, 2013
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    I don't know where to go from here.

    I can't draw a diagram specific to your needs unless I have something more specific.

    Do you have a motor? Motor diagram? They are all different.

    If you have a garage door motor that is still connected to the reversing contactors? Or can you reconnect it as per original diagram?

    All of the motor leads except 1 should be connected to an electro-mechanical device, with a moveable part, that controls motor when pressed.

    That is a place to start.
    If you can get that part working.
    Ie. press in one relay (contactor), motor runs. Press in other, motor runs reverse. Then the rest I can draw out and specify parts and connections.

    Any pictures or diagrams you have will help.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  8. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    The problem is, it is not easy to intercept the logic on the average G.D. opener, the same P.B. switch is used to initiate the up and down, the button and the Up/Dn limit is typically input into a logic IC. and the motor output control is fed from this logic.
    The majority of domestic G.D. openers in N.A. are made by Chamberlain, of which I have a couple of schematics and they all use the method outlined above.
    You may have to install a separate Limit Sw to initiate the timer which would close at time out and use a contact in parallel with the P.B. input, and be immediately reset or when it came off the limit.
    Max.
     
  9. BrokenArrow

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 17, 2014
    17
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    I work a dealer solution network hotline for CAT with computer aided earthmoving systems. I have a 25 years automotive repair background. I am farmiliar with readiing schematics from processor to harness to sensor. (OUTSIDE THE BOX) The electronics inside the processor and sensor I am not.
    The circuit I wish to put together is a DC control circuit (12V) to bidirectionally operate/control a AC motor (110V). with a time delay to reverse the direction. The motors i I have access to are an assortment of 110v 6 amp garage door opener motors donated from a garage door repair company.
    If I know what connects to what I can build it. I have access to every resistor, capacitor, diode, relay made. Just don't know how to put it together to make it inexpensive and easily repairable.
    Hope you can assist.
     
  10. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    So you are not operating a garage door unit, just the motor?
    The ones I am familiar with have a common and 2 winding connections, you energize one for up the other for down or reverse, the cap goes between these 2.
    Max.
     
  11. BrokenArrow

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 17, 2014
    17
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    correct, I found the Garade Door Opener with a time delay relay plan was a cost of $200+. I am picking up tomorrow a donation "bin" of garage door opener motors from an repair business. (motors only) I was told at CAT by a few of their EE's that a control board could be made for about $25. when i asked how, the novice tech talk went to PHD level. I was lost and found this site online hoping someone could dumb it down for me. I am technology management major an not an EE.

    I will look at the motors and wire colors tomorrow and post pics of them.
    Thank you for your assistance.
     
  12. inwo

    Well-Known Member

    Nov 7, 2013
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    Here is the same diagram with the PSC motor Max referenced.
    And a legend to symbols.

    Two control relays are needed for control logic and to carry motor current.
    Each with 2 N.O. contacts and 1 N.C. contact. (for interlock)
    12vdc coils.
    The original garage door contactors may work for these.

    If you have trouble finding low cost (<$10) relays, common HVAC-R822D1014 (DPDT) will work with a slight wiring change.
    [​IMG]

    One time-delay-on relay with 12vdc input, and 1 timed delayed N.O. contact.
    [​IMG]

    1 momentary push button switch.

    Two limit switches. 1 with a N.O. and one with isolated N.O. & N.C. contacts. (or 2 separate switches for forward limit)
    [​IMG]
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-4-Cherr...669?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item461e5b933d



    If you have trouble finding low cost (<$10) relays, common HVAC-R822D1014 (DPDT) will work with a slight wiring change.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2014
  13. BrokenArrow

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 17, 2014
    17
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    ere is what I found out today... the bin of motors was in the garbage bin. ALL non working motors.

    So I'm opting for a system with a 12v 24" Standard Duty Satellite Actuator motor ($60). The better choices are 32v. I'd like to run these from one 12v marine battery. How would the 32v system work off a 12 deep cycle battery? current draw is < 4amps. In the circuit is there any diodes, capacitors, etc needed?
     
  14. inwo

    Well-Known Member

    Nov 7, 2013
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    24/36 volt satellite actuators are very slow and under powered on 12 volts.

    What brand are you considering?

    Built in limits?

    Do you need same function?

    I'm confused. A linear actuator is completely different in function compared to the motor mentioned previous.:confused:

    I suggest 2-12v batteries or sourcing a 12vdc actuator?
     
  15. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    It would be interesting to find out what, if anything is wrong with the motors.
    G.D. motors traditionally operate less than a minute at a time.
    So burn out is very unusual, it could be just bearings etc or something trivial?
    Max.
     
  16. inwo

    Well-Known Member

    Nov 7, 2013
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    I'm starting to think that OP is referring to the complete opener mechanism. As per his last post.:confused:
     
  17. BrokenArrow

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 17, 2014
    17
    2
    I apologize my delay in responding to this post. I have been out of town for work. I did not pick up the older garage door motors. I will however be looking inot another source tomorrow. I will be using 12v and 110v bidirectional motors.
    I looked into using PLC for the controller but all the options found are a little more expensive than building a circuit board controller.

    Other additions to the circuitI would like to add
    LED lights for stages of program.
    power on the board = red LED
    amber LED = control side of relays has power
    green LED = on when a circuit is active
    a row of amber LEDs showing what stage board is in.

    What additional components will I need besides LEDs?
     
  18. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    It's still not clear what you are doing, for a more economical PLC route, did you look at a Smart Relay?
    Max.
     
  19. inwo

    Well-Known Member

    Nov 7, 2013
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    I believe OP is making this more complicated than needed.

    Unless a large number of these are needed it isn't going to warrant a solid state circuit board design.

    As two relays are needed, minimum, to carry motor current. The addition of one time delay relay completes the project.

    The other parts, like limit switches, will be the same for any design.
    Indicating relays or lamps might cost slightly more than simple leds on a circuit board, but seems trivial in the overall design.

    A single circuit board with P.S., a 555 timer, selector switch, leds, terminal strips, and two power relays isn't that big a project. Yet, I wouldn't bother for less than 50 pieces or so.
     
  20. BrokenArrow

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 17, 2014
    17
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    I did find out that I need a resistor before each LED and resistor value depends on LED color.
    One LED (yellow) on the control side indicating a complete circuit and another at the end of the controlled circuit (green)
    I did check into Smart Relay s for programming. The PLC will send the start signal to each target. (10 targets) in sequence.
    when I get back to my computer I will try to communicate the work the board will need to perform.
    Can a diagram be made for this?
     
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