questions about supplies

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by fishmon, Nov 22, 2012.

  1. fishmon

    Thread Starter New Member

    Nov 22, 2012
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    I would like to attempt an av switch box project but am having enormous difficulty finding basic parts I thought would be fairly easy to find. My son has numerous game consoles and ready made units begin to get costly after about 5 or six inputs. Plus I would like to try making my own pcb and possibly the enclosure also. First, the pcb mount red white yellow jacks (individual or preferably all three on a block). Second, push button on/off 3 pole switches also pcb mount. I've seen some on ebay but they are from overseas (china, hong kong, tiawan). They are so dirt cheap and ship free I worry there may be some sort of import levy or other hidden charges. any suggestions are greatly appreciated. I've used as many search variables as I can think of but still see very limited hits.

    Thanks
     
  2. spinnaker

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 29, 2009
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    You pay the price listed on eBay. There are no "hidden" charges. The price is the price + the listed shipping even when buying overseas.
     
  3. JMac3108

    Active Member

    Aug 16, 2010
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    Have you tried the standard sources? ... DigiKey, Mouser, Newark.
     
  4. ErnieM

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 24, 2011
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    I get some stuff from China off EBay all the time. Good prices albeit a long delivery, but great if you can wait some 2-3 weeks. Things typically come in tough envelopes with my regular mail to my mailbox.

    No hidden charges, no import duties, but I always wonder if DHS isn't running a file on me with all my "foreign" packages.
     
  5. fishmon

    Thread Starter New Member

    Nov 22, 2012
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    Sorry to be so electronically challenged here and maybe this needs to be in another forum but I'll stay on this thread if it's ok. My plan is to use 5 4pdt mini toggle switches to give me 10 red, white, and yellow inputs and having one r,w,y output. To make it a little more cool, I plan to use one pole to switch 9v battery power (through individual resistors) to either of 2 LEDs per switch to indicate which input is active. (The LED will illuminate a window showing the active console). The 3 remaining poles are for output. Hence, each on-off-on toggle will control 2 r,w,y inputs as well as one of two LEDs. I had planned to use a common ground for all inputs but looking at a pcb of an old switch it looks as if the red and white (left, right audio) share a common ground while the yellows share a separate common ground. Also there are resistors on board appearing to be between the various like terminals. Should I re-do my pcb plans to isolate the common grounds for the yellows as this one is? Why is that? Also, why the resistors?

    Thanks
    Fish
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
  6. fishmon

    Thread Starter New Member

    Nov 22, 2012
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    Also, for what it's worth... I saw numerous multi-pole, multi-position rotary switches on ebay for cheap. They are old USSR military stuff. Not a big fan of USSR but would be kind of cool to have such parts in a home made project
     
  7. Audioguru

    New Member

    Dec 20, 2007
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    Many cheap Chinese electrical products are not certified to be safe in America or Europe.
    They catch on fire and burn down your neighbourhood! The insurance company says, "Too Bad it was Chinese".
    In China they are not blamed because there are millions of similar problems that burn down their neighbourhoods.
     
  8. spinnaker

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 29, 2009
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    Post a schematic of your project. Trying to follow a big long paragraph like that is very difficult. Eagle, Diiptrace and Express PCB are just a few of the free schematic applications. With Express PCB probably being the easiest.
     
  9. spinnaker

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 29, 2009
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    I just got in a big batch of parts from mouser. Stamped on every package in big bold letters is China.
     
  10. fishmon

    Thread Starter New Member

    Nov 22, 2012
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    I'll try to print the pcb art, try to draw in the hard wiring, then scan
     
  11. spinnaker

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 29, 2009
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    Not the pcb. Your schematic.
     
  12. Audioguru

    New Member

    Dec 20, 2007
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    Many excellent products (Apple for example) are made by an AMERICAN manufacturer in CHINA.
    Many cheap garbage Chinese products are made by no-name-brand Chinese companies.
     
  13. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
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    [​IMG]
     
  14. fishmon

    Thread Starter New Member

    Nov 22, 2012
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    Hope the attached drawing makes sense. Tried to keep uncluttered as I could. Forgot to label the 5 rectangles in the center of the upper drawing but they are the 4pdt switches. They are toggle switches and are off in the center position. The three rectangle pads in the lower right accept the outgoing red, white, and yellow signals and from there go to the output jacks. At the bottom of the page are 2 possible input header designs...one has all grounds common, the other has all the yellows grounds isolated from the red/white grounds.
     
  15. Audioguru

    New Member

    Dec 20, 2007
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    HEE, HEE, HAW, HAW, HO, HO! That is a good one.:eek:
    The plastic wrapper is made in U.S.A. but the metal product inside is made in China.

    Years ago cheap Japanese radios were made in USA. USA is a city in Japan.
     
  16. dataman19

    Member

    Dec 26, 2009
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    Chinese Products and product liability warranties....
    ..
    The problem is "not" "Made in China". If you buy from Mouser, Digi-Key, Jameco, etc - the products you buy from them are manufactured and tested to assure that they meet US Specifications for product assurance.
    ..
    The problem with Chinese manufactured products is the "counterfeiting". A factory in China may very well be "certified" to produce producs for say "Texas Instruments" and they do so with utmost precision. The problem is with the "Texas Instruments" products that they produce "after they produce the contracted 100,000 or so units". Factories in China are notorious for running "second runs" of contracted products. Often this is done once the contracted run quota is satisfied. They replace "certified, Specified" components with cheap low grade components, or even put filler material into metal castings to stretch out the casting material and produce "more" products. These are the root of "Chinese Product Liability" issues. You may very well have a 160-PSI Air safert valve that won;t work until it reaches over 300-PSI, you may very well have a 60-Amp Double Pole 110V-110V Main Circuit breaker that will trip around the rated 60-Amps, but will burst into flames just prior to tripping because of inherent design/manufactiring defects that result in th4ermal overload prior to "tripping" current. Sure it says "UL Certified" on the breaker, but once the insurance Investigator or Fire Safety Investigator disassemble the item in their facilities they discover that the items are "fake". The problem then falls upon the homeowner (and if they are lucky and can prove it to be a contractor's fault - the contractor that purchased/installed the device).
    ...
    This is why "Made in China: has two meaning's. First - that the country of Origin is established in accordance with the Commercial Code. Second, so that the consumer is aware of where the International Trade Dollars are flowing. "Made in China" is not a problem when the products are "properly tested and certified", but "testing and Certifcation" takes a lot of money. This product was streamlined under the "Favored Nations Trading Tariffs". Since China has no "product Liability Laws" in-place, and the Tarriffs allow for import from the "member nations" of all goods and place product liability jurisdiction with te "originating member nations'" laws - US Consumers are out in the cold.
    ...
    The only protection that US Consumers have is to buy through the "established supply chain". When you go direct to China to purchase (as in eBay, etc) the Product Liability and Certification rests in "your Hands". Trust me that Chinese manufacturer/seller doesn't give a damn about whether the product is safe or certified, they only want the money.
    ...
    Then you have the "third party" commercial influence. Third party trade sanctions "are" in place, but are not enforceable, per se. The third party (or "surplus" ) market is a growing concern. It is one of the :major Causes" of the global economic collapse. Third party importers take circventing measures to avoid detection at ports of entry and eliminate customs costs to make a buck. The eBay market is one major avenue whereby products that do not meet destination country "product liability and safety requirements" are illegally imported by unknowing individuals. The global economic collapse only aggravates the problem and increases the potential for abuse under the cloak of "Saving a few bucks".
    ..
    The sprinkler head shown in an earlier post is an example of a Chinese component being imported to be incorporated into a final product being "Manufactured in the USA". This is allowed, but the Chinese component is required to be compliant with product liability and reliability specifications. The Made in the USA is legal because the outer covering, and final assembly most likely happened in a Plant in the USA. Had you purchased the product on eBay from a seller in China - the product would most likely be counterfeit - and purchasing said product and having it sent to you at your USA address means that "you" are the one breaking US Law and could be prosecuted - not the Chinese seller (since the Favored Nations Fair Trade Act places his legal status in the hands of China - which has not Product Liability Protection Laws).
    ...
    Electronic parts are the same. If you are a US or European Manufacturer - "You" are responsible fror Quality Assurance and "assume" all product Liability and Safety requirement issues for "your" final product. "You" are the one saddled with "proving" compliance and being able to show "proof of Testing". Products manufactured in China do not have this requirement - but - "Notifying" the Department of Commerce of Non-Compliant products originating from China are the responsibilities of the "Interests who hold patent or trade mark to said products" Not the importers, not US Customs. So the problem goes un-check'd, and people think because it is cheap they are getting over on the system.
    ..
    For a resistor it is just a matter of using a wein bridge to certify a percentage of the components, a variable current power supply and an ammeter to load the component until failure. This means you would pull say 2% of the items received and do destructive testing. High failures would dictate that you increase the sampling rate accordingly. Should "you" as a "US or European" Manufacturer importing products detect a "high failure rate" it is "YOU RESPONSIBILITY" to rectify the situation. Many Manufacturers have been burned by international commerce. Just because that Chinese Manufacturer has "sold" you 100,000 units, and once you receive them find that over 60^ fail testing, don't think they are going to respond with "We'll replace them, we are shipping replacements right away." More than likely their response is "So you need more? Great, that will be $XXX,XXX.00. Please forward via international bank wire. Oh yea. that will be an additional $XX,XXX.00 for shipping and handling."
    ...
    But I digress, This thread is about finding parts for a switch box project.
    ..
    My reply to that project will follow...
    ..
    Dave
    Phoenix, AZ
    (Over $50K already spent enforcing an Intellectual property case and Counterfeit Product from China. Yet have only had less than 2% success).
     
  17. dataman19

    Member

    Dec 26, 2009
    136
    29
    So you are attempting to switch X-Box and Wii Consoles? Or Arcade (maybe MAME) Consoles?
    ..
    Please clarify, you diagram may look electrically sound, but you will encounter numerous issues should you attempt simple electrical switching.
    ..
    I know that :commercially available "switch boxes" are expensive. But the process is not as simple as flipping a switch. Many games have a reset that automatically resets or re-initializes if the power is momentarily lost, or will freeze up if the joystick/controller momentarily looses signal, etc. Game switching consoles are designed to maintain signal continuity and power of requirements to make game switching as effortless as possible.
    ..
    To adequately address your requirements we need to know the make and model of every controller, Game Console Box, etc.
    ..
    To properly implement this you also need the pin outs and signal requirements of all the devices.
    ..
    This is cute:
    ..
    http://www.ohgizmo.com/2012/08/30/power-up-arcade-light-switch-plate-enables-your-gamin-addiction/
    ...
    Need Manuals for Arcade Games - try this link:
    ...
    http://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals/manuals_videogame.php
    ...
    Here is an Arcade Resources link::
    ...
    http://www.arcaderepairtips.com/resources/
    ...
    Here is a link to Mike's JAMMA Adapters:
    ..
    http://www.mikesarcade.com/cgi-bin/store.pl?action=search&category=JAMMA+Adapters
    ..
    Here is an interesting link:
    ..
    http://www.oneswitch.org.uk/4/DIY/JAMMA.htm
    ...
    I could go on and on... but I won't bore you all any more.
    ..
    PM me or Email me and we can brainstorm your application.
    I personally have five Upright Video Games (with literally thousands of Video Games loaded in one of my Game rooms with only Five cabinets..... So it "IS DOABLE".
    ..
    Dave Phoenix, AZ
     
  18. fishmon

    Thread Starter New Member

    Nov 22, 2012
    6
    0
    Dataman thanks for the thoughtful reply. The switching I'm mostly attempting to accomplish is more about neatening up the nest of cabling now in use as well as the constant plugging in and unplugging cables for any given console at any one time. If possible, my intent is to merely provide a path for the r,w,and y cables from the console to the display. The led's are to aid in identifying which console is dialed up. All other consoles should be off. All switches should be off except to the desired console. There would be no idiot-proofing here. I would fully expect electrical noise/crosstalk if any more than one console were on at the same time and any other switches not in the off position. There is no power on board other than the 9v for led indication and whatever is on the rca circuits. In my feeble mind the unused and off switches would serve as an isolation of sorts but leaving the unused consoles off would likely be necessary too. I'm OK with that if it will work. Hope that makes some sense.
    Thanks,
    Fish
     
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