That's why i love my laminator! Consistent transfers every time. I should mention another trick i use is to buy 0.8mm board (half the usual thickness) as it is easier to cut and work with heavy duty shears, and for double sided i just make 2 seperate boards and epoxy them together.

What laminator do you use?

 

Because it is not needed. There are a lot of myths around, this is one. I don't reuse etchant, the etchant is cheap. When I was a young duck I imprinted on the style of the time, and this is it.

I've mentioned it before, but the technique is still a work in progress. My boards tend to turn dark very fast, which makes me suspect there is residual etchant still there. Next batch I will add backing soda to the rinse to see if it helps.

I'm also planning to run some experiments on nonconformal coating using Krylon Acrylic Clear spray paint on these board, but I need to ruin a sample board first to see if it works.

I would like to see someone else do something similar to this thead with photo processes. I also would like to see some alternatives to a laminator with this process. The idea is to make it easy for people who want to DIY and give them options.

I see what you mean by enhancing your pads. I like it. What size hole for most of those pads.

I don't like fill because I have yet to get a good consistent result out of the toner transfer method with them.

 

What laminator do you use?

Heya

It's a GBC "Creative" - that's all it says on it Basically it's a very low end machine (around $35 AUD/NZD) , you hack one resistor to up the temp slightly and it works wonderfully.

The model is less important than finding something cheap and simple that you can hack, and expect to replace it after a few years. You can of course take the other approach and buy a very good laminator with floating rollers for thickness adjustment and variable temperature control and that will work just as well, and probably last longer.

FWIW i have not had any issues yet with my hacked $35 machine

 

What wattage and value did you use?

 

Not really, before I used Express I use MS Paint, and made PCBs that way.

Hey Bill,


How do you

1. Get the PCB Express Image into MS Paint?

2. Print the darn thing to print in the right size!

What I do is to print to PDF. Then do a PrtScr and paste to MS Paint. But when I print it enlarges the image. Gimp does a little better on size but it is still way too big. What is the secret?

I think the issue might be the PrtScr part but don't know another way to get it from Express PCB to Paint.

 

When you save the GIMP file stick with the .gif file format. If GIMP is set up correctly it will be 600 DPI. When loaded into Paint it will be massively oversized, but you can use Windows Picture and Fax Viewer (open at the same time) to track the progress of your work. When you are through in Paint save it again, the pixel pattern will not change, and when loaded back in Gimp for print out will still be 600DPI.

All 600DPI images in Paint will be huge, don't worry about it. There is nothing in the .gif format that defines DPI.

 

That worked So how do you get a mirror image for the silk screen?

I tried flipping horizontal in MS Paint but that does not seem to work. Nothing seems to line up as it should.

If I print the silkscreen from Express PCB then everything lines up perfectly of course it is not mirror imaged.


I used to have a PDF Writer that I can do mirror but it no longer has that capability.

 

I use GIMP to mirror the images. I'm pretty sure if you mirror in Paint is should work too. This suggests the image is not coming through true size on the PDF.

OK, I'll through the procedure I use for this. Using PCB Express I print both the PCB.pdf file and the Silkscreen.pdf file using the PCB program and PDF print forge. The PCB file comes out already reversed, but the silkscreen is not.

Now comes where I have boatloads of problems with GIMP, and I suspect your are too. There is something fundamental I am missing with GIMP, I suspect it has to do with layers. Due to the size of each image you must use GIMP, Paint could do the basic manipulations but you would have to do it in very small pieces of the images. Not good, or easy. I usually keep plugging along till I get there.

You should have 2 PDF files, you need to convert them into .gif files. The reason for this is cropping and ease of manupulation. You can not manipulate the PDF files graphically unless you are one of the few who have bought the PDF package. Given the Adobe wants hundreds of dollars for it (my impression, not necessarily a fact) I convert it into a friendly protocol as fast as I can.

I load the PCB.PDF file first using "Open". Be sure to set the settings to 600 DPI on the "Import from PDF" screen (this could be where your problems are). You now have the 600 DPI image loaded into GIMP. Now save the file as .gif file by using "Save as", this will bring up the "Save Image" Screen. Click the "Select File Type (By Extension)" button on the screen, then click the "GIF Image" option.

Click "Save". The "Export File" screen will come up, click "Export". Your computer will appear to lock up at this time, wait it out.

A new screen will come up, the "Save Image" screen. Click "Save". The deed is done, you have have a .gif image as well as a .pdf image. You probably won't need the .pdf image again.

Repeat procedure for silkscreen.pdf file.

You now have two .gif files, at this point I could use GIMP or Paint to work with the images. Crop them down, leaving a generous margin on the top and left side. Since you will be using tape if you are using wax paper you do not want the images near the edge, you would like them as near the center as possible.

You could print the images out using GIMP (after using GIMP or Paint to mirror the silkscreen), but I prefer to put both images on the same sheet.

I have been using GIMP to put both images on one sheet, mirror the silkscreen, crop the image on the right and bottom (failure to do this results in a "print.exe" error, I believe it is because the image is too large for the printer).

This process has been uniformly painful because I don't really understand GIMP, I muddle through by trial and error.

On the other hand, I know Paint extremely well, I think I can do all the agonizing details with Paint.

If you have problems from here let me know, and I will try to explain it as best I can.

The only thing after this is all images have to be printed with GIMP, and all the printer settings have to be set for 600 DPI as described in post #86. Paint simply can not do this part.

 

I found the mirror feature in CutePDF so I am using that for now.

I am still not sure how you are getting it to print in the correct size in MSPaint. I was wrong when I thought Gif worked. I found out that the reason everything was not lined up is because MSPaint was sizing it to print on one page. It came close but not near exact enough.

When I changed it to 100%, the gif printed giant just like any other image.

 

I found the mirror feature in CutePDF so I am using that for now.

I am still not sure how you are getting it to print in the correct size in MSPaint. I was wrong when I thought Gif worked. I found out that the reason everything was not lined up is because MSPaint was sizing it to print on one page. It came close but not near exact enough.

When I changed it to 100%, the gif printed giant just like any other image.

You can not use Paint to print it, only to manipulate the images.

Only GIMP will print at 600 DPI.

Only GIMP will convert a PDF to a .gif.


It was an interesting exercise though, Paint will indeed handle everything I need to manipulate .gif files.

I still have to use GIMP to print it out, but it just got a little easier for me, maybe.

 

Hi Bill
Is this the chemicals you were talking about...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtmWaxzgoK8&list=PL104B0671FA04F4B4&index=13&feature=plpp_video
I have been looking around for ideas and this looks nice.
He is using Posisitve film on the PCB...
Thanks

 

Yes, but he did the procedure a bit different. If you use a small piece of sponge as I suggest you can dramatically reduce the etch time. I really didn't like how he sloshed that liquid around.

I have a tupperware container marked with the 2:1 lines

 

An interesting read.

 

Bill, I wanted to thank you for this excellent thread.

Many moons ago (too many to mention) I made PC boards with a ink pen resist and ferric chloride.
Now that I'm starting to get back into electronics, I thought I'd try to make a PC board with "modern techniques".

So I saw this post, and thought it give your method a try.
I'll be making some REAL SIMPLE stuff for "teaching" on different ICs.
So I finished my first one this AM, and I thought I'd post some thoughts that might help other newbies.

1. I used ExpressPCB as you recommended, and I must say it is superb.
It took just a few minutes to "learn" it. Longer to figure out what the names of the components meant.

2. For paper, I went back to Tom Gootee's site, and also googled a bit.
I ultimately bought the Staples Photo paper gloss 9 mil.
I printed out the layout on an HP color laser jet.

3. The PC board is OOOOOLD, and double-sided so I took the time to really polish up one side.

4. I first measured the iron temperature and it was about 140°F toward the bottom, and toward the point it was about 190°F.
It was ironed for about 30-40 seconds, and after cooling, soaked in water for about five minutes (paper came off easily).
Acetone was used to clean up the face and it worked nicely.
If you run your finger over the traces gently, you can feel that they are very substantial!

5. In the upper right, I noticed that the trace was not nice (obviously I needed more heat there),
so I used a black Sharpie to make the trace (It really worked fine).

6. In the past I'd used ferric chloride as the etchant, but I thought I'd give yours a try.
The 2:1 combo of hydrogen peroxide and muriatic acid worked wonderfully.
After about 10 minutes, with VERY gentle agitation (raising the end of the container about 1/8th inch) the board was done.

7. I couldn't find any "standards" on the web for drilling the holes, so I checked a few spec sheets for pin diameters,
and settled on 0.04" for the LEDs and "big stuff", and 0.032" for IC sockets and "little stuff"
(bought the bits at Harbor Freight).

I've attached a picture, and yes, it's ugly, but it works!!!

I'll keep other newbies updated if I find any more info out there in the ether that might be helpful.

Thanks again!

 

For me the wax paper was a major innovation. It works very well, it surprised me quite a bit.

I have quite a bit of stock, but I prefer single sided when I'm making single sided.

I will have other experiments over time, if I live long enough. I'll document them too.

 

Bill,
Have you thought about using Peltier Devices bonded to two Aluminum Sheets to act as the heating press?
...
The peltier devoices can be used to heat or cool, configuring them to heat the aluminum plates would eliminate stinking up the wifes's oven. It would also allow you to use the C clamps to uniformly press the plates together.
..
Just a thought...
...
I just ordered eight peltier's and once I get them I will be off to the metals shop to get two 1/2" or 3/4" thick 14" x 14" aluminum plates. I would venture to guess that I will most likely pay a lot more for the aluminum plates, that I will for the peltier devices.
....
Also, the use of peltier's would allow me to use a couple of solar panels to power the whole thing. This would essentially make it an "Alternative Energy Project" which would gain kudos from the wife (who thinks my computers waste energy and is always bugging me to replace my towers with laptops).
..
Dave
Phoenix, AZ

 

You would probably stand a better chance of heating a board in an ordinary solar furnace rather than trying to heat it with a Peltier device.

 

At this point I would be happy to get a couple of smooth metal plate (material is unimportant), drill and tap them, and use a C clamp in the middle. Bake at 350°F for 20 minute. Recipe may vary after experiments.

My luck with a iron is abysmal.

 

At this point I would be happy to get a couple of smooth metal plate (material is unimportant), drill and tap them, and use a C clamp in the middle. Bake at 350°F for 20 minute. Recipe may vary after experiments.

My luck with a iron is abysmal.

Didn't I see a laminator in your bag of tricks? I have a GBC Heatseal H212 and I am having good luck with it. All I needed to do was to remove some guides from inside the device to keep the pcb from getting caught on them.

 

I've got some cartridge heaters, thermocouples, and PID controllers that I don't know what else to do with. I think I'm going to drill out a couple of thick steel plates and make a wonderfully over complicated toner transfer sandwich device. I would just use the laminator, but I would have to buy one, PLUS I would have to buy a new laser printer. I have a Brother brand printer, which for some reason uses a different type of toner that only melts at high temps.