Pumping of water to a higher reservoir is something I've thought about as a solution for the efficient storage of surplus energy from solar and wind farms. Around here, we get power from water flowing through a 300 or so mile series of dams on the Tennessee river. The energy is free, of course ( although converting it to electricity is not ) and so there is no need to expend energy pumping it up. However, by using surplus energy to recirculate the water, the reservoir levels may be better maintained, and most of the energy spent to pump the water would be recaptured as it flows through the turbins again. The efficiency could be as high as 75-80%, in theory. That may be better and cheaper than any other energy storage system that may be devised.

 

Pumping of water to a higher reservoir is something I've thought about as a solution for the efficient storage of surplus energy from solar and wind farms. Around here, we get power from water flowing through a 300 or so mile series of dams on the Tennessee river. The energy is free, of course ( although converting it to electricity is not ) and so there is no need to expend energy pumping it up. However, by using surplus energy to recirculate the water, the reservoir levels may be better maintained, and most of the energy spent to pump the water would be recaptured as it flows through the turbins again. The efficiency could be as high as 75-80%, in theory. That may be better and cheaper than any other energy storage system that may be devised.

Have a look here. http://www.tva.com/sites/raccoonmt.htm

 

Agustín, Here were the two generator sets at my last unit.

Gracias Joe.

Some questions:

We had an Onan of that size in a Japanese built vessel but the Cummins I seem to recall were much bigger. What brand were those?

What was your line of work in the Coast Guard? Deck or Technical?

And the last: always puzzled me why on VHF they called me "Skipper" instead of "Captain". Is it used to name the man in charge of small crafts? Never heard that expression other than from them.

Additional comment: once, being Chief Officer in a tanker, the vessel was inspected at Bayonne Terminal (NJ), by a team of three. Once finsihed our 2nd mate said: At home, Coast Guard comes with cap and pistol; here they come with cap and flashlights. They were good at their job. And strict.

From all the concerns ever, the one I recall the most, is the oil spills. Oh yes! You always had the 0 800 handy, just in case.

 

Have a look here. http://www.tva.com/sites/raccoonmt.htm

Not mentioned is the fact that most of the area gates in middle TN. dams are controlled from there. Every time there's a drowning downstream from a dam/floodgate, we have to contact Raccoon Mtn. to have them shut the gates. They will do it, but they want to be notified as soon as possible when you are done searching. When they are generating the turbulence in the water near the output is pretty rough, best not get too close.

 

Not mentioned is the fact that most of the area gates in middle TN. dams are controlled from there. Every time there's a drowning downstream from a dam/floodgate, we have to contact Raccoon Mtn. to have them shut the gates. They will do it, but they want to be notified as soon as possible when you are done searching. When they are generating the turbulence in the water near the output is pretty rough, best not get too close.

Are you a diver?

 

We had an Onan of that size in a Japanese built vessel but the Cummins I seem to recall were much bigger. What brand were those?

Cummins bought Onan.

What was your line of work in the Coast Guard? Deck or Technical?

I was an Chief Electronics Technician and Officer in Charge of the that Loran Station.

And the last: always puzzled me why on VHF they called me "Skipper" instead of "Captain". Is it used to name the man in charge of small crafts? Never heard that expression other than from them.

That must be something new as the last time I looked at the regulations, the Person in Charge of the Vessel was always referred to as "Captain"

Additional comment: once, being Chief Officer in a tanker, the vessel was inspected at Bayonne Terminal (NJ), by a team of three. Once finsihed our 2nd mate said: At home, Coast Guard comes with cap and pistol; here they come with cap and flashlights. They were good at their job. And strict.

Threat assessments differ in different parts of the world. Don't get me wrong, when a boarding party comes aboard, they can be armed.

It's been 20 years since I wore the uniform. I knew people assigned to the Marine Inspectors Office who inspected vessels overseas as well as within the U.S.

From all the concerns ever, the one I recall the most, is the oil spills. Oh yes! You always had the 0 800 handy, just in case.

I can believe it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_captain

 

Have a look here. http://www.tva.com/sites/raccoonmt.htm

That's awesome. I'm going to drive out there, as I only live a few miles away.

 

they called me "Skipper" instead of "Captain"

'Skipper' is a term commonly used in the UK to refer to whoever captains a boat or a sports team.

 

Are you a diver?

No..I'm a Search and Rescue Medic, part of a statewide organization ..http://tnars.org/.. All volunteer..
When a drowning occurs we do body recoveries.We use drags mostly, but some of the other counties do have divers. We also use underwater cameras.

 

I always thought the two terms were interchangeable. After all, Gilligan called his captain skipper.

 

You can call the captain "Skipper", but you must obtain the Captain's permission to do so.

Although it was congruent with the regulations to call the person in charge of any unit "Captain", irrespective of their rank, I never enforced that one because my rate (rank) held the short title of "Chief" as in Chief Petty Officer.

 

...
Here were the two generator sets at my last unit.

I like the cute little yellow bases!

We need to make sure people can see those "li'l generators" and don't trip over them.

 

Yeah, you know, safety is paramount. The a$$ you save may be your own.

I've visited a cutter where the engine room was bright white ... everywhere. If there were an oil drop ... it would be very evident.

 

For years I have been wondering what is, in different power plants, the relationship between the fuel you spend to keep them running ready for the consumers and the actual power consumption.

While I do not expect this to be explained here, what to google for?

Wondering what would be more expensive: the cost of keeping a portable Honda generator running continuously to feed my home with a minimal ammount of appliances, a power plant in a small city of maybe 100K people or the power plant(s) for a megacity?

I am used to the concept used in passenger vessels where in case of an emergency you shutdown non-essential services to avoid a general black out but here is the oposite; to cope with a somewhat unpredictible demand, you keep running a certain number of turbines or whatever, just in case.

Maybe all boils down to statistics and practical rules of thumb.

Here is a good explanation (see section 2.2). He claims that there is no communication between power plants and they naturally lock and respond.

http://www.av8n.com/physics/power-grid.htm

 

Gracias Gophert!

I should re read it again, probably many times. I cannot grasp the idea of nobody/everybody being the generator followed by the rest. No leader, eh?

 

I used to visit a friend at the Augusta Ks,. power plant, when they wanted to start up another generator, natural gas/diesel worthington generators, they had a set of light bulbs on the wall, the waited till all three bulbs were off, indicating phased with the power line, and then switched them on. if any light were lit when they were switched on, bad noises, flashes, and shaking of the floor happened.

 

"...when they wanted to start up another generator, natural gas/diesel worthington generators, they had a set of light bulbs on the wall, the waited till all three bulbs were off, indicating phased with the power line, and then switched them on."

Synchronizing the generators ... nice. I don't know why they had three when if you synchronized the same phase on each generator, the other two, by the physical construction, would be synchronized as well.

But, I'm no electrician, so, what do I know. I only had to synchronize the standby generator set to the online generator set once ... back in 1977, without causing the Loran signals to jump ... I was successful.

 

I think 3 bulbs for 3 phases is a nice way to provide verification that the bulb isn't burnt out and all three bulbs agree at the same time. Causes confidence in the guy that has to throw the switch.

 

I think 3 bulbs for 3 phases is a nice way to provide verification that the bulb isn't burnt out and all three bulbs agree at the same time. Causes confidence in the guy that has to throw the switch.

True. I would be very suspicious if I just started a generator with no load and the synchronizing lamp was not energized. What are the chances of the bulb being good and the gensets are synchronized? I never heard anyone in the engineering department jumping up and down proclaiming they started the genset and it was synchronized.

 

The process of coming up to sync should see the lamp pulsing in brightness, and getting slower as the frequencies match. Even with one lamp it should be very obvious if the lamp was blown.